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Science
In reply to the discussion: Science is shattering our intuitions about consciousness Annaka Harris [View all]Jim__
(14,673 posts)12. Panpsychism?
From the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
Panpsychism is the view that mentality is fundamental and ubiquitous in the natural world. The view has a long and venerable history in philosophical traditions of both East and West, and has recently enjoyed a revival in analytic philosophy. For its proponents panpsychism offers an attractive middle way between physicalism on the one hand and dualism on the other. The worry with dualismthe view that mind and matter are fundamentally different kinds of thingis that it leaves us with a radically disunified picture of nature, and the deep difficulty of understanding how mind and brain interact. And whilst physicalism offers a simple and unified vision of the world, this is arguably at the cost of being unable to give a satisfactory account of the emergence of human and animal consciousness. Panpsychism, strange as it may sound on first hearing, promises a satisfying account of the human mind within a unified conception of nature.
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What is striking about these early attempts to formulate an integrated theory of reality is that the mind and particularly consciousness keep arising as special problems. It is sometimes said that the mind-body problem is not an ancient philosophical worry (see Matson 1966), but it does seem that the problem of consciousness was vexing philosophers 2500 years ago, and in a form redolent of contemporary worries.
We find these worries re-emerging at the start of the scientific revolution, as the mechanistic picture of the world inaugurated by Galileo, Descartes and Newton put the problem of the mind at center stage while paradoxically sweeping it under the rug. Galileos mathematisation of nature seemed to leave no space for the qualities we find in experience: the redness of the tomato, the spiciness of the paprika, the sweet smell of flowers. Galileos solution, in a move reminiscent of Democritus, was to strip matter of such sensory qualities. This led to the distinction between primary qualitiessuch as shape, size and motionwhich were thought to really exist in matter, and secondary qualitiessuch as colours, odours and tasteswhich were thought to exist only in the mind of the observer (or to exist as powers to cause ideas in the minds of observers).[3] Galileo and Descartes did not take the radical Democritian step of denying the existence of the secondary qualities; instead they placed them in the soul.[4] However, this of course led to a radical form of dualism, with a sharp metaphysical division between souls with their secondary qualities and bodies with their primary qualities.
In opposition to this dualism, the panpsychist views of Spinoza (163277) and Leibniz (16461716) can be seen as attempts to provide a more unified picture of nature. Spinoza regarded both mind and matter as simply aspects (or attributes) of the eternal, infinite and unique substance he identified with God Himself. In the illustrative scholium to proposition seven of book two of the Ethics ([1677] 1985) Spinoza writes:
We might say that, for Spinoza, physical science is a way of studying the psychology of God. There is nothing in nature that does not have a mental aspectthe proper appreciation of matter itself reveals it to be the other side of a mentalistic coin.
Leibnizs view is sometimes caricatured as: Spinoza with infinitely many substances rather than just one. These substances Leibniz called monads (Leibniz [1714] 1989). Since they are true substances (able to exist independently of any other thing), and since they are absolutely simple, they cannot interact with each other in any way. Yet each monad carries within it complete information about the entire universe. Space, for Leibniz, was reducible to (non-spatial) similarity or correspondence relationships between the intrinsic natures of the monads.
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...
What is striking about these early attempts to formulate an integrated theory of reality is that the mind and particularly consciousness keep arising as special problems. It is sometimes said that the mind-body problem is not an ancient philosophical worry (see Matson 1966), but it does seem that the problem of consciousness was vexing philosophers 2500 years ago, and in a form redolent of contemporary worries.
We find these worries re-emerging at the start of the scientific revolution, as the mechanistic picture of the world inaugurated by Galileo, Descartes and Newton put the problem of the mind at center stage while paradoxically sweeping it under the rug. Galileos mathematisation of nature seemed to leave no space for the qualities we find in experience: the redness of the tomato, the spiciness of the paprika, the sweet smell of flowers. Galileos solution, in a move reminiscent of Democritus, was to strip matter of such sensory qualities. This led to the distinction between primary qualitiessuch as shape, size and motionwhich were thought to really exist in matter, and secondary qualitiessuch as colours, odours and tasteswhich were thought to exist only in the mind of the observer (or to exist as powers to cause ideas in the minds of observers).[3] Galileo and Descartes did not take the radical Democritian step of denying the existence of the secondary qualities; instead they placed them in the soul.[4] However, this of course led to a radical form of dualism, with a sharp metaphysical division between souls with their secondary qualities and bodies with their primary qualities.
In opposition to this dualism, the panpsychist views of Spinoza (163277) and Leibniz (16461716) can be seen as attempts to provide a more unified picture of nature. Spinoza regarded both mind and matter as simply aspects (or attributes) of the eternal, infinite and unique substance he identified with God Himself. In the illustrative scholium to proposition seven of book two of the Ethics ([1677] 1985) Spinoza writes:
a circle existing in nature and the idea of the existing circle, which is also in God, are one and the same thing therefore, whether we conceive nature under the attribute of Extension, or under the attribute of Thought we shall find one and the same order, or one and the same connection of causes .
We might say that, for Spinoza, physical science is a way of studying the psychology of God. There is nothing in nature that does not have a mental aspectthe proper appreciation of matter itself reveals it to be the other side of a mentalistic coin.
Leibnizs view is sometimes caricatured as: Spinoza with infinitely many substances rather than just one. These substances Leibniz called monads (Leibniz [1714] 1989). Since they are true substances (able to exist independently of any other thing), and since they are absolutely simple, they cannot interact with each other in any way. Yet each monad carries within it complete information about the entire universe. Space, for Leibniz, was reducible to (non-spatial) similarity or correspondence relationships between the intrinsic natures of the monads.
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Science is shattering our intuitions about consciousness Annaka Harris [View all]
Uncle Joe
Mar 21
OP
Disappointing. 10 minutes of words, few facts, no explanation of the "all-pervading force" idea. . . .nt
Bernardo de La Paz
Mar 21
#3
Science starts with science. Not intuitions and feelings. It forms hypotheses based on observed phenomena. This
Martin68
Mar 21
#8
The farther down you break it, the farther you get from consciousness. This is pure woo.
Martin68
Mar 21
#10
That's a clear "no." It is a chemical reaction within chloroplasts. No consciousness is needed, just as we breathe
Martin68
Mar 21
#14