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Religion

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MineralMan

(148,889 posts)
Wed Jan 16, 2019, 11:55 AM Jan 2019

I think the idea of "civil religion" is a contradiction in terms. [View all]

Religion is generally accepted to be based on belief in a supreme being or deity, which is worshiped, propitiated, or feared by adherents to that religion.

Government, on the other hand, is a civil authority, lacking deities, at least in the case of the United States, where state-sponsored religion is prohibited by our founding documents.

Religion is not just celebrations, ceremonies, and participation in activities. The reason for those things in religion centers around that deity or supreme being. All of them have, at their core, recognition, honoring, and praying to that deity.

Civil events are not about that. They are about a common social structure, regardless of belief in supernatural entities. I do not attend my city council meetings to worship anything at all. I attend to make my opinions known to my elected officials. I do not write letter sto my legislators, state and federal, with the intent of praying to any deity. Instead, I remind those legislators that I have opinions regarding laws they are considering.

I do not attend fourth of July celebrations or any other such patriotic assemblies to worship at any altar. I attend them because I am part of this society, which supposedly welcomes people of all faiths and of no faith at all.

Robert Bellah, in his writings, attempted to define what a "civil religion" was, but failed, because there is no supreme being necessarily involved in systems of government, especially here in the United States, where such deities are excluded by our founding documents. All US citizens, of all faiths, and even of no faith, are participants in our system of government.

We do not have a civil religion in this country. We have a nation. It is quite a different thing than a religion. Religions have worship. Nations have participation in its actions by its citizens. Religions have deities. Nations have laws.

There is no "civil religion" in the United States. There cannot be.

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It's just another attempt at equivocation. trotsky Jan 2019 #1
Yes, exactly. MineralMan Jan 2019 #2
Deism has more to do with the foundation of this country than theism Major Nikon Jan 2019 #3
Only very weak statements referring to any sort of deity MineralMan Jan 2019 #4
Out of the 7 most influential founding fathers... Major Nikon Jan 2019 #9
To the point. Firestorm49 Jan 2019 #5
I'm not so sure. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #6
While some minority of people might treat those things in those ways, MineralMan Jan 2019 #7
I think it is more pervasive, actually. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #8
That was one of the critiques of the idea immediately after it was presented Major Nikon Jan 2019 #10
Thus speaks the official definer. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #11
What are the first two words in my title, Guy? MineralMan Jan 2019 #12
Not a contradiction in terms, just something the US doesn't have muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #13
Religion does not have to be theistic. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #14
While that's true, the word, religion, has theistic connotations MineralMan Jan 2019 #16
Oh absolutely and it was clear that is why Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #20
Yup. MineralMan Jan 2019 #21
You bring up a good point though I think the "religious" elements of this "civil religion" stuff... trotsky Jan 2019 #17
Yes the US version is clearly christian. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #18
I think religion is more about the symbols and ceremonies than the beliefs marylandblue Jan 2019 #15
I understood "Civil Religion" uriel1972 Jan 2019 #19
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