Trump concedes defeat in huge court case - Brian Tyler Cohen

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Transcript:

you're watching the legal breakdown
Glenn we have watched as Donald Trump
has waged this massive assault on
federal government workers we've now
seen that backfire in a big way as of
right now can you explain what just
happened yeah Brian recall not just one
but two federal judges ruled that these
massive terminations of probationary
employees was illegal and they have been
ordered the judges have ordered the
federal government to rehire them
reinstate these people to their old jobs
and now we have some new reporting from
the BBC that the federal government is
in the process of restoring
25,000 unlawfully fired government
employees public servants to their old
job so you know what Brian I'm no
Economist I'm not an accountant I'm not
a numbers cruncher but you know let's
see whether Elon Musk and his fake
government agency the Doge the
department of government efficiency is
saving the American taxpayers money or
squandering wasting the the taxpayers
dollars because here's the thing these
people were unlawfully fired a month or
so ago what happens they go home they
sit there they don't draw their
government pay they also lose their
health insurance um and now a month
later they're going to be rehired
reinstated into their old jobs and guess
what because they were unlawfully fired
they are almost certainly going to
receive back pay what does that mean our
tax dollars will now go to pay millions
and millions of dollars in federal
employee salaries for a period of time
that these people were sitting home
doing exactly zero work for the American
people is that Elon Musk saving us money
or is that Elon Musk squandering americ
Americans taxpayers dollars you know you
want to really dig down and and get into
governmental efficiency probably the
best thing to do at this point is fire
Elon Musk Glenn at this point we now
have these rulings that say about 7,600
employees have to be reinstated at the
treasury Department 5,700 in a 3200 in
HHS Health and Human Services and
hundreds more in other departments and
so what are next steps here is there
rehiring um an absolute guarantee or is
it still subject to appeals by the Trump
Administration Brian it's an absolute
guarantee provided the federal
government complies with court orders
why do I say that because these federal
court judges ordered the Trump
Administration to provide plans for
rehiring these people so that the courts
can be confident that they they can and
they will and they are complying with
these orders to rehire folks who were
unlawfully fired so yes it is subject to
appeal but in the inim the federal
government has been ordered and is
reportedly complying with those orders
and they are beginning the rehiring
process to restore these people back to
their old jobs Glenn what kind of an
impact is this going to have on future
firings obviously uh Doge and the Trump
Administration are hellbent on
continuing to gut the federal government
especially as it relates to these career
civil servants because they want to
replace them with uh political
appointees and so does this pour cold
water on all of their plans to really
dig into dig into the details of
enacting project 2025 where again they
just gut the entire uh civil servant
sector all to to make sure that they
have people in office who are loyal not
to the Constitution not to uh their oath
of office not to federal law or these
statutes but rather just to Donald Trump
himself yeah Brian it should certainly
have a deterrent effect in the event the
administration Donald Trump musk or
others are intending to fire other folk
from the federal government to try to
downsize because look if you follow the
rules and the law with respect to
employees rights you can certainly
downsize the federal government so let's
hope that this will chill Trump and Elon
Musk and anybody else in the executive
branch that is thinking about firing
folk if they're going to do it they have
to honor the employees rights along the
way you know Brian when I saw that these
probationary employees were just fired
in massive numbers in the course of
about 24 hours and they were told these
were performance-based terminations you
know so many of these probationary
employees who had been with the
government for 6 months a year a year
and a half reportedly had glowing
evaluations from their supervisors and
their agencies so when I saw saw them
try to falsely claim that these were
performance-based firings my you know
first thought was Boy the courts are
going to reverse this so fast it will
make Doge's head spin and you know a
month or six weeks may feel like a long
time but in you know justice system
years that's like a split second so you
know if the the federal government wants
to go about trying to terminate um other
employees they damn well better follow
the r rules the procedures and the law
because if they don't it looks like this
will be the Fate they
suffer Glenn there are still outstanding
lawsuits as it relates to Trump's
efforts to fire government employees I
know that we've been talking about the
class action lawsuit with regard to
these Federal prosecutors who were fired
um does this have any either precedent
or atmospheric precedent when it comes
to those remaining ongoing lawsuits yeah
I love the term atmospheric precedent
and you and I have talked about this
before so when we when we hear the word
precedent we you know receive that as oh
well then this thing has to be followed
moving forward the reality is precedent
is not set by trial court judges and
these rulings we're talking about these
two federal court judges who determined
that these were unlawful firings and
ordered that these people be returned to
government employment these are trial
court judges they don't set precedent it
is only when rulings or criminal
convictions are appealed and the appeals
court then takes up what happened in the
trial court they are the ones when they
hand down a ruling that set precedent
that must be followed by all of the
judges in the jurisdiction where the
appeals court is sitting so but you use
the term atmospheric precedent and it's
really important when trial court judges
rule a particular kind of firing is
unlawful that may not be legal preced
because an appeals court didn't hand
down that ruling but it will become
important atmospheric precedent other
judges will look at it and indeed
federal government agencies will look at
it and say okay this gives us some
guidance now even if it's not strictly
speaking precedent and we better comply
with whatever those courts have said
about you know when we try to terminate
somebody how we can do it and how we
can't do it Glenn is there any risk for
the Trump Administration appealing this
decision knowing full well that okay
while this specific narrow instance
might not carry any precedent for their
ongoing cases as it relates to other
fired federal employees but if they do
bring this case up to the appeals court
and the appeals court agrees with the
trial court well then you do have
precedent and then that makes it a much
a much steeper uh Hill to be able to
scale for for the Trump administration
because now you've got precedent that
could apply in their other cases Brian
you have not only earned your law degree
it looks like you're working on your llm
which is like a masters of law because
would make that would make that would
make my mother happy for among among
everybody else so it's such a good
question because part of the decision we
always had to make as prosecutors and
this translates to the practice of civil
law as well these lawsuits we're
discussing are civil cases not criminal
cases but the principle is the same if a
judge rules against a particular party
you know we would have to decide well do
we have more to gain or more to lose if
we decide to take an appeal and we lose
that appeal that means not only in this
particular case given this set of facts
we've lost but that may set out a
broader principle that could cover and
sweep in other facts in other cases that
aren't identical but you know in the
long run if a bad precedent is set for
one side or another it can do some real
longlasting damage or harm to the way
law is practiced so you're exactly right
you know Donald Trump probably wants to
look before he leaps or at least his doj
does because if they start setting
really bad precedent in the appeals
courts on issues like how can we go
about firing federal government
employees that may have some much
broader implications for what they get
to do and more importantly what they
don't get to do moving forward
you know Glenn a lot of these cases are
taking place in in Washington DC and
obviously that's a more liberal um court
system than for example the the 11
circuit court or or the ninth circuit is
is there any worry that when you have
these Federal cases with folks that are
that are really found in the Washington
DC area in the Virginia area the
Maryland area where they're in that a
more liberal courts jurisdiction that
that that poses a risk to the Trump to
the Trump administration because when
you do want to appeal these cases uh and
you have judges who are not these
far-right judges like you see you know
um down in Florida down in Texas does
that pose a risk for the Trump
Administration in terms of in terms of
actually seeking these appeals yeah let
me push back a little bit on the notion
that the federal bench in Washington DC
is a quote more liberal court or more
liberal set of Judges you know federal
judges are appointed by the president so
you're going to have the same president
during his four-year term appoint judges
in Florida in you know DC in
Massachusetts California New York
Oklahoma you name it and yes depending
on which judges end up in which federal
courts in which states you know this
that bench that Federal bench in that
state or that Federal jurisdiction might
lean a little bit one way or another let
let me just hasten to add when we talk
about you know the the DC federal courts
being on the liberal side what we would
ordinarily be referring to is the jury
pool because you know DC votes 90 or 93%
democrat whereas red States obviously
vote heavily Republican so it is the
jury pool that we are referring to when
we talk about how courts in one state or
another one jurisdiction or another are
kind of more liberal or more
traditionally conservative so I don't
think that necessarily plays in you're
going to have Trump appointed judges in
DC you're going to have Trump appointed
judges you know in virtually every
Federal jurisdiction in Most states
across the country and it really comes
down to kind of a judge specific
question is that judge an honest broker
of the law and the Constitution or is
that judge or Justice if we're talking
about the Supreme Court not an honest
broker of the law and the Constitution
and we have seen lots of trump appointed
judges rule against Trump legal
positions most notably in 2020 during
the challenge to the results of the 2020
election every Trump appointed judge who
received one of those 60 plus cases
ruled against Trump that should give us
all a little bit of comfort in the
quality and Independence of the federal
Judiciary overall and finally Glenn
let's finish off with this are we
certain here uh that the Trump
Administration won't be appealing this
and that this ruling as it stands right
now uh bring in roughly
25,000 uh federal employees who had been
fired back into the federal government
is that going to stand you know it feels
like that ruling is going to stand and
here's why I say that because the
reporting the new reporting is coming
out of basically what reporters are
learning about the federal government
and the federal employees who were first
wrongfully terminated and who have now
been told they're coming back to work
and those plans are in place and those
plans are in progress so it feels like
the federal government the Trump
Administration is choosing to comply
with this order to rehire 25,000 you
know wrongfully terminated public
servants and they are now implementing
the plan to return them to government
service okay well obviously uh a lot
happening on this front so we'll
continue to stay on top of it for those
who are watching if you want to follow
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I'm Brian teller Co and I'm Glenn
kersner you're watching the legal
breakdown