I have become an agnostic as far as a mythical or historical Jesus.

[edhopper]

First let me state I am an atheist, and whether or not there was an itinerant preacher named Yeshua, who was the kernal for the Gospel's Jesus, I think the New Testament is 95% fantasy and almost ever story and quote is fictional.
But there is a debate for whether there was a man at all, or if Jesus is pure myth.
I have been reading some articles for both sides. And since there is scant evidence for a historical Jesus, and contemporary evidence is nonexistent, it comes down to a rational look at what we do know.
I find both sides have equally compelling arguments from both camps. And since this isn't about any of the Gospels being true, which is easily dismissed, it comes to how Christianity originated. Especially where Paul, and later Mark got there information from.
Still an interesting historical question which I find doesn't have a clear answer.

Edit:
Thanks for the thoughtful answers so far. I should also say i do not think Yeshua, if he existed, started Christianity. That was Paul, a thoroughly unlikable person.

[markie]

1. control

whatever is true and/or mythology... the impetus was controlling the masses

my thoughts, for what it's worth and I know it ain't worth much

as an atheist, I attended seminary years ago... very eye opening

very, very excellent study in the "Transformative Power of Ritual"

[applegrove]

5. Jesus preached love. The old Testament "Thow shall not kill".That was an important change from an eye for an eye

religions. It was revolutionary. Basically you had to follow customary law or expect to be killed before.

[edhopper]

7. To bad the Church

never followed that.

[applegrove]

8. They followed it in times and places. It was revolutionary for the area.

Last edited Sun Feb 1, 2026, 09:57 PM - Edit history (2)

Not every Roman Catholic in the 1400s was corrupt. Some were born to walk the walk and found a path in Christianity. They fed the poor, gave sanctuary to women. They still do social services in my city. They teach kids a love of reading in small towns...... how big is that?

[edhopper]

9. Not since Constantine

At the latest.

[applegrove]

10. Christians had less infanticide since 'Thow Shall No Kill'

was a main tenant. So Christians numbers grew.

[edhopper]

11. Christian numbers grew

because Constantine made it the State religion.

Where did you get that strange theory?

[applegrove]

12. Read it somewhere.

[applegrove]

14. It is just a step up from the ending of child sacrifice

increased population growth. Surely you believe in those stats?

[edhopper]

15. The Romans did not practice

Human sacrifice.
But more to my point, after Constantine, everyone in Europe slowly became Christian through conversion, coercion and conquering.
I don't think it was a matter of "more babies."
I am not sure infant mortality improved in the Middle Ages.

[ABC123Easy]

2. Preachers called Yeshua at that time and specific place....

.....were probably as rare as finding a (insert a profession/occupation here) named John in any given city in the US.

There's no conceivable way to prove or disprove Heysus the person's existence so it comes down to the old cliché of "It's faith".

Believe it or not, it's up to each person I guess. Myself, I entrench deeper and deeper into your corner on this topic the more I learn about the origins of this religion.

I liked your post, thank you for making it.

[biophile]

3. Lots of people have debated this and as you noted, we will probably never know

In the end, I believe that it was the power structures that have changed the history we are “allowed” to know. By propaganda, destruction of evidence and truths, outright lying, and just killing those who disagree- we ended up with modern day religions.
I am a person of spirituality but disdain religion.

[cachukis]

4. Pandora's box. The tools of sharing information so

long ago is not within our perception. We are looking back at a creation story; mythical at best.
In college, 70's, I took a course on the Dead Sea Scrolls professed by a Catholic nun who assisted Yigael Yadin, a serious student. Don't remember his credentials, but he had a book.
She took the perspective of the Essenes, a sect of intellectuals entranced by John the Baptist.
He was a pretty advanced philosopher who inspired a spiritual connection with a Supreme primemover. He anticipated a messiah.
Or so I remember my professor.
He laid the foundation for an escape from the drudgery of hopelessness most people of his time experienced.
Since that time in class, I always suspected, the Essenes were devastated by the death of John and symbolically, his message was resurrected in the jesus story as it was translated many years later by the stories of The Baptist's preaching.
The Gnostiics tell an interesting tale.
The story became political with Constantine and the council of Nicea set the stage for a political juggernaut still in use today.
Have never read any theory along these lines, but he was accused of being a messiah. And as there were assigned secular and religious delineations of messiah, the powers that be, feared a coming; hence his demise.
My toss into the quagmire.

[anciano]

6. Like your post👍 .....

Agnostic here. I completely agree that if there was an actual historical teacher that is now referred to as Jesus, that he didn't start a new religion. He was simply "deified" later and his life story embellished by folks who saw an opportunity to start a new gig.
"The Christian theory is little else than the idolatry of the ancient mythologists, accommodated to the purposes of power and revenue." Thomas Paine

[multigraincracker]

13. The Romans kept a lot of records.

Can’t think of any found during Christ life time.

[edhopper]

16. true

no contemporaneous records. And large parts of the history told in the Gospels that can be checked against the records is objectively false.

[multigraincracker]

17. The written record was already 1,500

years later, told over and over with changes in every version.

[edhopper]

18. Even if you go back to the texts we have from

300 AD, in the original Greek or Latin translation, it is factually wrong on events.

[multigraincracker]

19. Interesting book. Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

By Bart D Ehman.
He became a language expert to go back and prove the scriptures right. He looked at all of the oldest evidence and found the opposite true.

[edhopper]

20. Why am I not surprised?