New York court is set to hear Donald Trump's appeal of his $489 million civil fraud verdict

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: AP

Updated 1:14 PM EDT, September 25, 2024


NEW YORK (AP) — A New York appeals court is set to hear arguments in Donald Trump’s fight to overturn a civil fraud judgment that could disrupt his real estate empire and cost him close to a half-billion dollars.

The former president and current Republican nominee has given no indication he plans to attend Thursday’s hearing in Manhattan.

Trump’s lawyers are asking the state’s intermediate appellate court to nullify a judge’s findings that he deceived banks, insurers and others for years by lying about his wealth on paperwork used to make deals and secure loans. They contend that Judge Arthur Engoron’s verdict was “egregious” and should be reversed.

New York Attorney General Letitia James’ office, which sued Trump on the state’s behalf, argues that Engoron’s decision is backed by “overwhelming evidence.”

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-civil-fraud-appeal-1bb9e3d456f06a5db52887ef5865d892

[underpants]

1. Is there bad cash? Sounds like the argument followed some ketchup hitting a wall

He has complained that he was being punished for “having built a perfect company, great cash, great buildings, great everything.”



Trump and his lawyers say the penalties imposed on Trump were “grossly unjust,” some allegations should have been barred by the statute of limitations and that the state shouldn’t be policing private business transactions. They also say James improperly sued Trump under a consumer protection statute normally used against businesses that rip off customers. 👀

[GB_RN]

2. Really? Cantaloupe Caligula The Corpulent & His Attorneys Are Going There?

I don’t know how his attorneys could argue that he was improperly sued under a “statute normally used against businesses that rip off customers,” and say it with a straight face. Seriously, the irony here is so thick, you could torpedo-proof an aircraft carrier with it. 🤦‍♂️

[slightlv]

3. I thought the whole process had to be finished before

he could take it to the appellate court? We haven't had the sentencing part of it yet... or is that another trial? He has so many I get confused!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

4. This is his NY "civil fraud" case done by AG Tish James, not the "hush money/election fraud" case by D.A. Bragg

[slightlv]

5. Thanks! I figured I'd forgotten at least one or two trials in there somewhere! lol

[BumRushDaShow]

6. There's a big pile of cases!!

[iluvtennis]

7. After TSF loses this appeal, what is the timeframe for him

to pay the $489 mil to NY state?

Thanks in advance.

[FakeNoose]

8. When he croaks ... the State of NY will be first in a long line of creditors waiting to be paid

[iluvtennis]

9. LOL - 😂.

[mdbl]

11. He's hoping he'll win the presidency and juat pay it out of the US Treasury

Yes he really thinks like that.

[Grins]

10. Jack Smith filing also due Thursday!!

DC election fraud case.

Going to be an interesting day!*

* And I mean “interesting” in the Chinese sense.

[rpannier]

12. I wonder if his BFF Alan is representing him

I mean, they hang out with some of the same people -- Epstein.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

13. I watched part of the oral argument

Here is a link to the oral argument
https://www.youtube.com/live/emwvMtwZ53k

Call me cynical but there is a chance that the appeals court has already hinted at a ruling when the court reduced TFG's bond from almost $500 million to a mere $175 million. The judgment in this case was based on two separate damage elements (i) TFG's saving due to lower interest rates due to the fraudulent statements and (ii) disgorgement of all profits realized by TFG due to the fraudulent transactions. Disgorgement is a strange remedy that is sometimes used when no other form or measure of damages is appropriate.

Over $300 million of the judgment against TFG is based on disgorgement of profits from two real estate transactions plus interest on such profits from the date of the transaction. Legally, disgorgement is an extreme remedy that is usually based on the transaction being solely due to the fraud. In other words, there is a position that disgorgement is the appropriate remedy if these transactions were only possible due to the fraud. The two transactions on which disgorgement was ordered were helped by the TFG fraud but such transactions could have been consummated even if TFG had not committed fraud but at a higher interest rate. In addition, disgorgement is an equitable remedy and as such disgorgement is subject to some equitable defenses that the court of appeals may deem applicable.

The balance of the award against TFG is based on the lower interest rate that TFG was charged due to the fraud which amount is around $160 million. It is possible that the court of appeals in signaling that it is not comfortable with the disgorgement damages. TFG's attorneys have briefed the disgorgement issue and it is possible the appellant court may be willing to reduce the award.

I did not listen to TFG's attorney main argument but listened to most of the NY AG attorney oral argument where the judges asked at least twice if the damage are being double counted. I think that the court may well reduce the judgment to a lower amount consistent with the $175 million bond. I can see the court of appeals affirming the interest rate component of the award but having issues with disgorgement as a remedy.