General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBut what about the 50,000 stock market !
That is a response that is common with Republicans when asked about Trump's racist comments.
Look how great our economy is doing, they say.
The media wastes our time on trivial matters because they don't like Donald Trump.
We can only assume that money is more important than racism to a lot of Americans.
But what about that stock market?
When the wealthiest people in the world are given trillions of dollars in taxcuts, they have to do something with it. I don't doubt that much of it will go into the stock market. It is not indicative of the economy as a whole. Because if it did, we would not have lost over 100K jobs in January?
markodochartaigh
(5,234 posts)and another 10% off for this year
https://www.morganstanley.com/insights/articles/us-dollar-declines
LakeVermilion
(1,536 posts)one of the reasons that the market went over 50,000. More profit. Wait until we lose 200,000 jobs.
gab13by13
(31,625 posts)when companies cut jobs. We are in a K economy.
I just did my taxes and that 12k that Krasnov gave wife and I amounted to 1,500 dollars.
D_Master81
(2,397 posts)Anything and everything is just about money.
sop
(17,927 posts)The more layoffs, inflation and corporate monopolies, the higher it goes.
walkingman
(10,498 posts)As citizens we have to try to keep up with inflation and there are not many ways to do this. There are thousands of stock market pundits pushing various stocks, and I think in many ways has become a more of a marketing thing than anything else.
Lots of insider trading, pump and dump, and although I am in...it scares me these days, especially because I do not have a lot of time to recover from a black swan event.
maxrandb
(17,284 posts)We have seen this movie before.
U.S. stock market experienced a massive, unprecedented boom during the "Roaring Twenties" preceding the Great Depression. Between 1921 and the peak in September 1929, the Dow Jones Industrial Average increased more than six-fold, driven by speculative investing, easy credit, and widespread "buying on margin".
Key aspects of this pre-Depression boom included:
Mass Participation: Investing became a national pastime, with investors ranging from industrial magnates to ordinary citizens pouring savings into the market. (401K's anyone?)
Speculative Bubble: Prices soared to "fantastic heights" based on the belief in a permanently high economic plateau. (AI/Crypto anyone?)
Margin Trading: Many investors purchased stocks by borrowing up to 90% of the value from brokers. (Low Interest, Stock By-backs, Deregulation anyone?)
Peak and Crash: The market peaked on September 3, 1929, before crashing in October 1929, losing nearly half its value by mid-November.
While some observers warned of a bubble, the market's rapid expansion continued until the sudden collapse in late 1929.
I remember my brother bragging about his 401K retirement account before the last bubble burst. 6 months later, at age 60, he was telling me he would have to work into his 80's to make back what he lost. He died at 63.
The Stock Market is NOT the economy.
Cirsium
(3,672 posts)We are told, endlessly, that a rising stock market is good news for everyone. When the Dow hits a new milestone20,000, 30,000, take your pickwe are encouraged to cheer, to feel reassured, to believe that prosperity is spreading outward and downward like a benevolent tide. A rising market, were told, lifts all boats. Its a comforting image. Its also deeply misleading, because most people in the US dont have a boat in that water at all.
The stock market is not a shared commons. It is a privately owned asset pool, and its ownership is astonishingly concentrated. The wealthiest 20 percent of U.S. households own roughly 92 percent of all stocks. Go further up the ladder and the picture becomes starker still: the top 1 percent alone owns about four out of every ten dollars in the stock market. For the bottom half of Americans, stock ownership is so small it is effectively nonexistent.
So when stock prices rise, who exactly is being lifted? Certainly not the 40 percent of Americans who struggle to afford at least one basic necessityrent, food, or medical care. Not the 63 percent who couldnt handle a $1,000 emergency room bill or a $500 car repair without going into debt. Not the 80 percent living paycheck to paycheck, with little margin for error and no surplus to invest. For these households, stock market gains dont lift them upward. Instead, those gains quietly raise the floor beneath everyone elses feetmaking housing, healthcare, education, and even groceries more expensive relative to stagnant wages. The water rises, yesbut it rises against most of us.
When stock prices rise, roughly 96 percent of Americans see their share of total wealth decline
Research makes this dynamic explicit. When stock prices go up, roughly 96 percent of Americans actually see their share of total wealth decline. This isnt because their lives suddenly worsen in absolute terms, but because wealth at the top grows so rapidly that everyone else falls behind by comparison. Inequality doesnt require widespread impoverishment. It only requires acceleration at the topand the stock market is remarkably efficient at providing exactly that. Among the top 10 percent of earners, rising stock prices are wildly beneficial. For the top 4 percent, they are transformative. Everyone elses relative loss is their gain. When they win, we lose. In fact, their winning is dependent upon the rest of us losing.
This isnt an accident. Over the last several decades, stock market growth has not primarily reflected explosive growth in the real economy. Instead, it has tracked a long, steady shift in how economic output is divided. A growing share of the nations wealth has flowed to capitalprofits, dividends, asset appreciationwhile a shrinking share has gone to labor in the form of wages. In plain language, the stock markets long bull run has been fueled less by workers producing dramatically more value than by workers receiving a smaller piece of what they produce.
The overall economic pie has grown, but not especially fast. What has changed is who gets the slices. Those who own stocksby definition, those with disposable income and existing wealthhave captured most of the gains. Those who rely primarily on wages have not. The stock market doesnt merely reflect inequality; it actively helps generate it. And yet we continue to treat market highs as national achievements, as if they were collective victories rather than private windfalls.
The irony is impossible to ignore. The United States is, by almost any measure, the wealthiest nation in human history. In 2017, its GDP stood at $19.39 trillionnearly double that of China, the worlds second-largest economy at the time. Projections put U.S. GDP above $23 trillion within a few years. By raw economic output, the country is fabulously rich. And yet a vast portion of its population is struggling to survive.
How can this be? How can so much wealth coexist with so much insecurity? The answer is not that the country lacks resources. Its that those resources are increasingly locked away, accumulating at the top and compounding there. Wealth, once concentrated, has a tendency to stay concentrated. It earns returns. It buys influence. It gets passed down.
A rising stock market doesnt signal shared prosperityit signals who already owns the economy
Consider the extreme end of the spectrum. According to analyses based on Forbes annual list of the richest Americans, just three individualsBill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Jeff Bezoshave held more wealth than the entire bottom half of the U.S. population combined. Three people versus roughly 160 million others. This isnt merely a curiosity. Its a signal of a system that no longer distributes gains broadly, even in times of apparent prosperity.
The story looks similar when viewed through the lens of race. In 2010, stocks made up about 18 percent of the total assets of white households, compared to just 5 percent for Black and Latino households. When stock prices rise, the benefits flow disproportionately along existing racial lines, deepening gaps that have been centuries in the making.
Workers didnt stop creating value. We simply stopped receiving a fair share of it.
The stock market doesnt just reward wealthit rewards having wealth already. People earning over $100,000 a year are far more likely to have money left over to invest. People earning under $30,000nearly half of American workersgenerally do not. You cannot dollar-cost average your way into financial security if every dollar you earn is already spoken for.
This reality is thrown into sharp relief by comparisons that are almost obscene in their imbalance. In 2016, Wall Street banks paid out more than $24 billion in bonuses to about 177,000 employees. That single bonus pool exceeded the combined annual earnings of over a million Americans working full-time at the federal minimum wage.
Redirected even briefly, that same pool of money could have raised millions of low-wage workersrestaurant servers, home health aides, fast-food workersto $15 an hour. Instead, it flowed upward, reinforcing a system where financial success feeds primarily on itself.
Much of this wealth is not newly earned in any meaningful sense. The three wealthiest families in the United Statesthe Waltons, the Mars family, and the Kochsbuilt their fortunes generations ago. Today, stock ownership and business equity preserve and magnify that inheritance. The stock market does not level the playing field; it freezes the hierarchy and then amplifies it.
When we cheer rising stock prices, we are applauding a private windfall and calling it a public victory
So when we cheer rising stock prices, what are we really celebrating? We are celebrating the further swelling of already massive portfolios. We are applauding a mechanism that channels economic growth toward those least in need of it. We are mistaking asset inflation for shared prosperity and calling it success. Treating the stock market as a proxy for national well-being is not just inaccurateit's dangerous because it obscures hardship, excuses inequality, and allows us to congratulate ourselves while millions of people fall further behind.
A rising tide does lift boatsbut only the boats already afloat. For everyone else, it simply raises the water and calls it progress.
MichMan
(16,874 posts)How would we be better off when it crashes?
Cirsium
(3,672 posts)Im not arguing that people with retirement savings should hope for a crash. Thats a false choice. The point is that weve built an economy where the financial security of a minority is tied to asset inflation, while the majority bears the costs through higher housing, healthcare, and education prices. Questioning that structure isnt the same thing as wishing harm on people who are trying to retire.
The deeper problem is that weve made stock market performance a proxy for economic health. When retirement security depends on perpetual market growth, any attempt to address inequality gets framed as hoping for a crash. Thats not sustainable. A healthy economy shouldnt require rising asset prices to keep people secure.
Stock market gains overwhelmingly benefit those who already own significant assets. That doesnt mean individuals with 401(k)s are villainsit means weve tied basic security to a mechanism that concentrates wealth. We can protect retirement savings and stop treating market highs as evidence that the economy is working for everyone.
Im saying that an economy where the only path to security is asset appreciation is a fragile one. We shouldnt confuse protecting peoples retirements with defending a system that leaves most people without any assets at all.
