A serious question: Can America recover from this disastrous Trump regime?

[kentuck]

How much of our democracy have we lost?

Just as Steve Bannon predicted, they have destroyed, to a large degree, the "adminstrative state".

Even with a disaster like the flash flood in Kerrville, TX, they no longer have FEMA to help the victims the way they need to be helped. The Federal government is there to help states in times like these when the states do not have the money or personnel to assist where it is needed.

Trump and Rubio just announced within the last week cuts of over 1300 people at the State Dept. They are tearing the government down bit by bit. How much do we need this "government"? They are not doing it in thoughtful or productive way. They are taking the chainsaw to it. Just as when they cut nuclear scientists, or the people that handled our nuclear materials, and tried to hire them back.

But those cuts are not the real harm done to our democracy. They have divided the nation into tribes and fed them poison propaganda to not trust, but even hate, their neighbors, friends, and even their own families. How do we repair that?

Now, we have armed troops in the streets, arresting and disappearing people who may be US citizens. Even if not citizens, it is a nightmare from which we have not yet awakened. It can only get worse. The Judges are no longer able to keep up with the transgressions against our Constitution. The Legislature and Executive, and the Supreme Court, were casualties quite a while ago.

Is it possible to recover and have a better system of government than the one we used to have?

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Not likely.

[sakabatou]

2. It'll probably take years to do so.

[Ocelot II]

3. Yes. Germany recovered from Hitler's Nazi regime and a disastrous war

and is now a prosperous democracy. Life in the US is going to suck hard for awhile but nothing lasts forever.

[kentuck]

4. Good analogy.

Hopefully our nation will not look like Dresden when it is over.

[The Madcap]

17. They had help.

There won't be a Marshall Plan for us.

Just Marshall Law.

[Ocelot II]

22. Martial law. But we might get some assistance if it's the interests of other countries

to help us pick up the pieces. Maybe Canada would want to annex a few states....

[The Madcap]

34. It was a joke in recognition of MTG.

I should have put quotes around it.

[Ocelot II]

35. Ah. I get it.

"Marshall" law is a little peeve of mind and I get triggered. Sorry!

[The Madcap]

39. No problem.

I find it quite ridiculous as well.

[hamsterjill]

5. I believe we will because mankind will ultimately evolve. The question is how long it will take.

I do not believe it will happen in my lifetime, and that makes me sad. I was hopeful that we, as a species, might have learned more along the way. But it does not seem that way at this juncture.

I'm just tired of the orange asshole getting away with EVERYTHING that he attempts. I'm tired of people, places, entities, etc. giving in to him. He's not god and surely there is SOMEONE out there who can take his ass down - in a purely legal and responsible way, of course.

[kentuck]

6. Is it all for power?

And money?

[hamsterjill]

13. And religion.

So much of this is the "religious" right trying to force their beliefs on others. (And full disclosure, I am a Christian, but I am not one of the evangelical crazies.)

These people are insecure around anyone who might believe differently than they do, and they are emboldened by being around those who echo their hypocritical beliefs. So, they try to enlarge their circles either by forcing others to acquiesce and believe as they do, or by ostracizing them - which makes them feel powerful and yet again, emboldens their insecurities. Because if their safe little group won't let someone in, then that person who is expelled MUST have something wrong with them.

I was raised in that environment, but I have simply always been different. I believe that each person has to follow their own path to religion, away from religion, or whatever works for them. You cannot force someone to agree with you, and I have no need to do that. I came to terms with my own beliefs and principles long ago, and I'm comfortable with that.

I don't understand why these Christian nationalists can't allow others to do their own thing, and the only explanation that makes any sense to me at all is that they are truly, indeed, very insecure in what they believe. Ultimately, there will come a time when this is called out because to deny each person their own path is to deny real freedom.

Slow process, and it has always had some forward movement, with some backward movement, and then some forward movement again. I had hoped we had made more of a move forward than we obviously have, and I am saddened because it is this way. But sooner or later, wisdom and sanity will return because the survival of the human race is going to depend on it.

[The Madcap]

18. Destroying a country is a lousy way to convince people of your beliefs.

It only breeds animosity and skepticism.

[hamsterjill]

21. Well, I would totally agree.

Unfortunately, the idiots that I posted about don't see it that way.

Why can't we all just respect one another enough to allow each of us to live our lives the way we want and see fit? As long as what *I* do does not harm another, then why should *I* be prevented from doing as I see best for me, and let everyone else do the same?

We've lost sight of that common and simple principle - or at least some of us have. The rest of us MISS having it as the ultimate goal for society.

[dalton99a]

7. The destruction of our government paves the way for the next question:

The government is not doing anything anymore, why are we paying taxes?

[kentuck]

10. And then further questions...

How do we continue to pay Social Security benefits? How do we continue to provide Medicare for the elderly? How do we continue to take care of our veterans?

It would be worse than the Great Depression when people knew how to survive and were willing to slave all day for a dollar. Crime would be rampant. There could be food shortages. How would we handle all the social problems that would result from the total destruction of our government?

[Dave says]

8. Yes, in a couple of generations

So, yes, we can recover. Our great-grandchildren and grandchildren can live in a prosperous democracy.

The question is will we? Is there the will, in the future world, to make this happen? With late-stage capitalism you get fascism; with AI and AGI you probably get totalitarianism; with nuclear proliferation you get nuclear war and the end.

So, who knows?

[Moostache]

9. There is only one way to recover - complete societal breakdown and reformation of the nation in its aftermath.

There is no compromise with the current GOP that I can abide. There is also no compromise that they will accept because their belief (reinforced by Fox News and Trump's fire hose of dishonesty and bullshit) is that their team is 'winning'. They are innured in propaganda and incapable of recognizing just how badly they are being fucked in the process.

I do NOT accept persecution of 'the other' (immigrant, racial differences, LGBTQ, or any other class)
I do NOT accept I.C.E. or border security as the primary function of the state.
I do NOT accept that working people should be fearing the ability to acquire basic human dignity (shelter, water, food, health care)
I do NOT accept that women do not own or control their own bodies.
I do NOT accept that billionaires should exist, let alone be financially favored over the working poor.
I do NOT accept that tax cuts to create and maintain billionaires should supercede healthcare for millions.
I do NOT accept that any man is above the law, that presidents are omnipotent or that Stephen Miller is a human being.

I BELIEVE that all freedom springs from mutally assured respect.
I BELIEVE that science is real and religion (in the wrong hands) is vile.
I BELIEVE that humans (Homo Sapiens) are all the same and that race is a political concept, not a biological trait.
I BELEVE that humn rights are what makes for a foundation to have a society larger than a few dozen relatives, without the recognition of these rights, life is reduced to a war for resources instead of a path to greater achievement.
I BELIEVE that America is an ideal first and a country second and that we are currently failing them BOTH.
I BELIEVE that the press and speech must remain free and maintaining that freedom requires it to be non-profit and protected.
I BELIEVE that knowledge is a human right and that college expenses are a social responsibility to the future.
I BELIEVE that speech is speech and money is money and the use of either in the pursuit of the other is EVIL.
I BELIEVE that wealth distruibution is currently disgusting and that billionaires who employee people on federal assistance should be taxed out of existence and that their horded wealth should be redistributed to those who make the enterprise function!

There is no way to make peace with the people that passed the GOP's latest monstrosity of a debt bomb or to break bread as fellows with those who are establishing Aligator Auschwitz on American soil. The only way this gets fixed is by a bloody war or a complete partitioning of the union into 2 states. I will end up in the state that includes California, Illinois, New York and is allied with Canada, Mexico, the EU, Japan and the rest of the free world.

That other part of the territory (the partitioned portion that rejects literally everything above) - which should just be named the Neo-Confederate States now - can all go pound sand and die for all I care, but I do not see a pathway to re-integrating them for their current attitudes, forgiveness of crime and cruelty for sport. Those are not fellow citizens, they are card-carrying, badge-wearing Nazis and if my grandfathers and great uncles all fought (and lost friends and relatives) the FIRST NAZI crisis, I cannot stand by and refuse to fight its second coming.

The real issue is going to be reforming the Constitution and the branches of government to restore the American experiment to a functioning baseline and not a kleptocracy with fascist leanings. (Oh, and we will also need to lead the effort to destroy all nuclear weapons forever - IF we win. If we lose, there will be civilian areas destroyed by these weapons, I am 99% sure of that now.)

[Dave says]

33. Great post, Moostache!

And I am 1,000% in agreement with you.

[alwaysinasnit]

11. It will reform itself, but for better or worse, no one knows. All I know is that I can never look

Last edited Mon Jul 14, 2025, 08:32 PM - Edit history (1)

at MAGA people and have any trust in them again.

[Greg_In_SF]

12. We did it once

and we'll do it again!

[Johonny]

14. The GOP is greater than 50 percent of the government

And has little interest in preserving the USA. Without the complete collapse of said party, I can see no fixing this. The Biden administration is about the best we can hope for and he left office deeply unpopular. Thus, we can conclude Americans aren't so interested in fixing this yet.

[markodochartaigh]

31. Yes,

in 2015 when the Republicans allowed their party to be headed by an authoritarian Strong Leader who was not committed to democracy they ended their party's participation as a partner in democracy. The party leaders understood what they were doing, some of them refused to support their party's own candidate. But because Trump was so wildly popular among the 80% of their base who are authoritarians they knew that they could not win without him. So they put party before country and put democracy in danger.
To be a functional democracy a country needs at least two viable parties committed to democracy. The US is one party short. About one third of the electorate don't care as long as they get their hamberders and sportsball. Unfortunately, the answer to whether democracy continues in the US will have to come from the right.

[surfered]

15. Yes, but his collaborators will never be able to wash off the stink.

[Efilroft Sul]

16. Recovery requires a new constitution.

Last edited Mon Jul 14, 2025, 02:06 PM - Edit history (1)

If we go back to the existing one that has been exploited out the wazoo, we're just enabling the next, likely smarter, Trump. We need a new constitution, one that can use the existing document as source material. It must address current concerns, use clear language (I'd fail a student if he or she wrote the Second Amendment), and close loopholes. It also needs to eliminate the Electoral College.

Also note that any recovery does not necessarily mean the United States as we know it remains intact. Same for individual states.

But to answer your last question, yes, we can recover with a better system of government that serves a more perfect union.

[struggle4progress]

19. ... For all the dreams we've dreamed

And all the songs we’ve sung
And all the hopes we’ve held
And all the flags we’ve hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay—
Except the dream that’s almost dead today.

O, let America be America again—
The land that never has been yet—
And yet must be—the land where everyman is free.
The land that’s mine—the poor man’s, Indian’s, Negro’s, ME ...

O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath—
America will be! ...

https://poets.org/poem/let-america-be-america-again

[RockRaven]

20. Nope. America put itself on a downslope and pushed itself really hard.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to slow the slide though.

[LS0999]

23. At this point is up to the people to rise up in mass and say no more

There should be threats of impeachment every single f****** day at the very least from the Democrats in Congress.

[Kaleva]

24. Climate change will strain this nation to the core. The future is very grim.

[Oopsie Daisy]

25. Eventually. But not in the years I have remaining.

[Vinca]

26. I don't see how the world every trusts us again. There was 4 years of this nonsense that managed to kill off

a good chunk of our own population and then he turns up again for another round of chaos. I wouldn't trust us again. Assuming MAGA goes away at some point, another idiotic cult will put on the next show and the slobbering masses will rally around that.

[bucolic_frolic]

27. Not until citizens reject materialism and are satisfied with a simple life.

Corporate capitalism drives us to bankruptcy from consumption. We are slaves.

[BBbats]

28. I Hope So!

It will take former allies to help us recover & we will hit absolute bottom first.
And if we find a way of putting down the "Projest 2025" plan & their leaders. That could take years & maybe a Civil or/and A World War.
And I genuinely believe it won't be in my lifetime (I'm 72 years old).

[JCMach1]

29. It seems like 9 years, but has not even been 9 months

[Hekate]

30. I hope my grandkids will live to see it. I'll be 78 this Sept., & I think recovery will take 2 generations...

Just one thing: Once Germany started down this path almost a century ago, it took them losing a World War and admitting what they did before they came out of it.

My attitude is rather grim at this point.

[angrychair]

32. No

Not in any meaningful way.
The country, as we have known it, no longer exist.

Best case is we avoid a complete collapse. We will devolve into separate alliances and smaller groups who will fall in and out of conflict with each other for the next several decades over resources.
That is, in my opinion, the happiest possible outcome at this point.

[ForgedCrank]

36. I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Ok, joking and my nerdy Star Wars references aside, yes, we will recover. Trump has done nothing that cannot be un-done.
The camp in TX had plenty of warning, this wasn't a NOAA failure in any way, shape or form, and the cuts did not affect this particular incident. It was the delay in heeding the warnings that lead to the deaths there. I already know that goes against the narrative, but I don't tow lines, I tell the truth.
It is the ridiculous hyperbole that is is dividing us. People are too quick to not only believe, but to spread misinformation rather than trying to think for themselves in a rational manner. What you described regarding troops in the streets is a good example.
The root of our problems is that DC has been full of filth and corruption for decades at this point. Scant few of them are there to actually represent us. DC is made up of people who are addicted to either power, money, or both, and they use media to keep us at each others throats, fighting and arguing while they do what they have always been doing.
Trump is an asshole, but he is not as portrayed by many. A good portion of it is propaganda. Like a standard recipe, an example of wrongdoing is true, and an entire false premise is built around it. We need to start being honest with ourselves before we can ever hope to have a chance of righting this ship. We gain support through merit, not by twisting things up and relying on character destruction. Doing so achieves the exact opposite of what we need, and that is for centrist voters to take us seriously for a change.

[kentuck]

37. OK. I confess.

I do not have a lot of faith that we will recover from this ordeal anytime soon. I'm not sure that we will have fair elections in the near future. In my opinion, our institutions have been fractured.

The country is very divided, in my humble opinion.

[In It to Win It]

38. Nope. Gotta build something new

[MineralMan]

40. Remains to be seen.

I don't know.

[JanMichael]

41. Decades.