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bigtree

(91,934 posts)
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 02:25 PM Jul 12

Totalitarianism on full display, Trump threatens to strip citizenship away from a US citizen who opposes him politically

Melanie D'Arrigo @DarrigoMelanie 3h
Trump wants to strip citizenship away from a U.S. citizen who opposes him politically.

His April 28th EO let's his AG target political opponents.

His counterterrorism czar said political opponents should be considered domestic terrorists.

You see where this is going, right?






...I warned just yesterday in a long post, that was mostly ignored, that acquiescence to the scapegoating of immigrants by BOTH parties in the past has made us ALL vulnerable to this fascist administration's goal of punishing, and aspirationally, eliminating his political opponents.

...and again:

In a speech in the 1858 senatorial campaign at Edwardsville, Illinois, Abraham Lincoln goes on the offensive against Stephen Douglas and the Dred Scott decision of the preceding year.

"What constitutes the bulwark of our own liberty and independence? It is not our frowning battlements, our bristling sea coasts, our army and our navy. These are not our reliance against tyranny All of those may be turned against us without making us weaker for the struggle.

Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in us. Our defense is in the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands everywhere. Destroy this spirit and you have planted the seeds of despotism at your own doors.

Familiarize yourselves with the chains of bondage and you prepare your own limbs to wear them. Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you.

And let me tell you, that all these things are prepared for you by the teachings of history."




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Totalitarianism on full display, Trump threatens to strip citizenship away from a US citizen who opposes him politically (Original Post) bigtree Jul 12 OP
He's trying to distract and change the subject right now D. Spaulding Jul 12 #1
this isn't just bait bigtree Jul 12 #2
Exactly right. H2O Man Jul 13 #9
He is playing God. pandr32 Jul 12 #3
Dems remember, what goes around, comes around. republianmushroom Jul 12 #4
I can't agree with this strongly enough. bigtree Jul 12 #5
Again, correct. H2O Man Jul 13 #10
A narcissist composed of only spite and revenge. And never misses a chance to do it. Grins Jul 12 #6
Professor Vladeck- Denaturalization and Expatriation LetMyPeopleVote Jul 13 #7
let's not forget and ignore that Trump has already moved forward on myriad illegal actions bigtree Jul 13 #8

D. Spaulding

(320 posts)
1. He's trying to distract and change the subject right now
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 02:31 PM
Jul 12

because he's failing so miserably on many fronts. We and the media should not take the bait.

bigtree

(91,934 posts)
2. this isn't just bait
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 02:36 PM
Jul 12

...this is a threat against YOU and every other citizen in America.

If anything, he wants to distract from his intention to use his secret police force against political opponents, as he's deployed ICE and military forces exclusively in Democratic-majority and Democratic-led states and cities.

It's actually tyranny against the American people which is being practiced and encouraged from the highest office in the land. Ignore this at your own peril.

H2O Man

(77,383 posts)
9. Exactly right.
Sun Jul 13, 2025, 03:21 PM
Jul 13

The Epstein files nonsense is the distraction. The OP is real. (And recommended.)

republianmushroom

(20,705 posts)
4. Dems remember, what goes around, comes around.
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 02:39 PM
Jul 12

And don't give me that shit, that was then and this is now.

bigtree

(91,934 posts)
5. I can't agree with this strongly enough.
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 02:43 PM
Jul 12

...it won't be vengence or retribution.

It will be justice getting done, again, according to the laws all of us are compelled to live by (except for Trump and his privileged, protected crony criminals from the WH, to the republican Congress, to the maga majority on the Supreme Court).

Impeachments should be the first order.

H2O Man

(77,383 posts)
10. Again, correct.
Sun Jul 13, 2025, 03:23 PM
Jul 13

As our friend Amos noted: "But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!"

Grins

(8,618 posts)
6. A narcissist composed of only spite and revenge. And never misses a chance to do it.
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 04:12 PM
Jul 12

Life in his “home” must have been hell.

LetMyPeopleVote

(166,528 posts)
7. Professor Vladeck- Denaturalization and Expatriation
Sun Jul 13, 2025, 02:41 PM
Jul 13

Here is a good analysis of denaturalization. It would be almost impossible for trump to strip Rosie of her citizenship without a nasty lawsuit

With President Trump threatening to revoke Rosie O’Donnell’s citizenship, it seems like a good time to re-up my explainer on denaturalization and expatriation — and why what Trump is suggesting is … not viable:

Steve Vladeck (@stevevladeck.bsky.social) 2025-07-12T18:40:26.584Z

https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/146-denaturalization-and-expatriation

For good reasons, it is difficult to denaturalize a U.S. citizen and even harder to expatriate one. As this week’s “Long Read” documents, Congress has provided for only a handful of circumstances in which the executive branch is empowered to pursue such a move; and the Supreme Court has recognized meaningful constitutional limits (and an entitlement to meaningful judicial review) even in those cases. As we’re seeing so often with the current administration, there may well be a legal avenue for at least some of what it appears to want to accomplish, but that legal avenue has too much, you know, law, interposing both substantive limits and procedural requirements between the President and his policy preferences......

Historically, and for good reasons, it has been exceptionally difficult for the government to involuntarily revoke an American’s citizenship. 8 U.S.C. § 1481 identifies seven classes of activities that can subject citizens to a loss of citizenship:

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or (B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or

(4)(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or

(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or

(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.


As should be clear from this list, most of the circumstances involve behavior in which an individual has manifested a specific and voluntary desire to surrender their citizenship—and not when citizenship has been revoked as a punishment. And even for subsection (a)(7), the one part that doesn’t seem to require that on its face, the statute today includes an umbrella condition—that loss of citizenship depends upon whether the individual “voluntarily perform[ed] any of the [specified] acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality.”......

Section 1481 applies to all U.S. citizens. For naturalized citizens (i.e., those who become citizens after birth), there’s one additional basis for revoking citizenship—and that’s if and only if their citizenship was “illegally procured or . . . procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation.” Here, too, the statute (and, almost certainly, the Constitution) requires notice and meaningful judicial review before an American’s citizenship can be stripped. As 8 U.S.C. § 1451(b) mandates,

The party to whom was granted the naturalization alleged to have been illegally procured or procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation shall, in any such proceedings under subsection (a) of this section, have sixty days’ personal notice, unless waived by such party, in which to make answers to the petition of the United States . . . .

Of course, the government can pursue denaturalization on broader grounds than it can pursue expatriation—since the Constitution doesn’t create a substantive right to naturalization in the same way it does for birthright citizenship. But the key is that here, too, the Supreme Court has regularly insisted not only on meaningful judicial review of denaturalization proceedings, but on construing the relevant statutes narrowly—including, most recently, in 2017. (For much more on the complexities of denaturalization, see this fantastic February 2020 “Practice Advisory” from the National Lawyers Guild and the Immigrant Legal Resource Center.)

In other words, although denaturalization is potentially available in more cases than expatriation, it still requires meaningful, individualized judicial review—review that holds the government to a significant burden in providing that an individual wrongfully obtained their citizenship, and not just that they engaged in questionable behavior thereafter. There is, simply, no easy, fast path to revoking any American’s citizenship without their consent—and there hasn’t been for decades. That may not stop the current administration from trying it anyway, or from removing citizens unlawfully and then resisting the legal consequences. But it’s important to be clear on what the actual legal authority for such maneuvers would be. Here, there isn’t any.

I was so sad to see Professor Vladeck leave the University of Texas Law School.

bigtree

(91,934 posts)
8. let's not forget and ignore that Trump has already moved forward on myriad illegal actions
Sun Jul 13, 2025, 03:19 PM
Jul 13

...gambling those actions against republican judges and justices who have, in some cases, acquiesced to acts that numerous previous administrations and Americans have had to operate under for decades and decades.

It makes little difference that an action is illegal, if this president decides to proceed anyway, as he has on numerous things which have been rejected by courts, especially lower ones.

And let's also not forget that this is meant to intimidate ALL Americans who have every reason to doubt this president will adhere to the law. Being prosecuted by the government is often a long and withering process where people's lives are destroyed, even if they ultimately prevail against the charges.

No one should be sanguine about the prospect of this president having his political opponents arrested and jailed as he tries to extradite them.

How many times does this man have to cross these legal lines for people to understand and appreciated the gravity of these threats, and the very real potential this out-of-control, unaccountable felon will act on them.

Moreover, there isn't an enforcement arm of the court that is going to be willing to confront the Executive, as DOJ is cosplaying Stasi police, and the republicans in charge of all branches of government's obsequiousness and complicit legislative moves, coupled with the Supreme Court's invention of unprecedented protections for this one president are effectively enabling Trump and his party with the power to serve everyone who agrees with and supports him, to the exclusion of anyone who does not.

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