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erronis

(20,662 posts)
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 10:44 AM Jul 2

Alligator Alcatraz Isn't Just a Prison. It's a Mirror. And It's Asking Us: Who Are We, Really?

https://hartmannreport.com/p/alligator-alcatraz-isnt-just-a-prison
Thom Hartmann

The most dangerous thing about Alligator Alcatraz isn’t the alligators. It’s the message...

When Louise and I lived in Germany in 1986/87, we visited Dachau with our family. The crematoriums shocked our children, but even more so because this was simply a “detention facility” and not one of Hitler’s death camps. The ovens were for those who had been worked to death or killed by cholera.

The death camps, it turns out, were all located outside of Germany so Dear Leader could deny responsibility for them. You know, like Gitmo.

Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill” (aka the “GOP Donor Fellatio Act”) contains a 13-fold increase in ICE’s budget, turning it into the largest single (secret, masked) police force in America, along with, in aggregate, close to $100 billion to build a new series of “detention facilities” all across America.

If this passes, soon the country will pockmarked by concentration camps. As Trump said yesterday:

“Well, I think we'd like to see them in many states, really, many states. This one, I know Ron’s doing a second one, at least a second one, and probably a couple of more. And, you know, at some point, they might morph into a system where you’re going to keep it for a long time.”


Let’s stop pretending. Let’s stop dancing around the language, around the morality, and around the history.

What’s being built in the Florida Everglades, for example — what they’re calling “Alligator Alcatraz” — is not just another immigration facility. It’s a political prison engineered not merely to detain, but to humiliate, dehumanize, and broadcast terror.

It’s America’s first open-air symbol that our democracy is not just dying: it is being dissected publicly, cruelly, and with calculation.

. . .
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Walleye

(41,466 posts)
1. It's also indulging the fantasies of a toddler. He couldn't reopen real Alcatraz so he had to get a "better one"
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 10:48 AM
Jul 2

jrthin

(5,194 posts)
2. Haven't the question of "who we are" been answered by the election of tsf.
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 11:06 AM
Jul 2

We've shown who we are over and over again. And we're not decent people.

Iamscrewed

(486 posts)
4. History
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 01:16 PM
Jul 2

Doesn't necessarily repeat but all to often it rhymes, unfortunately sometimes it gets darker.

neohippie

(1,236 posts)
5. It's been suggested to call it Alligator Auschwitz
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 01:29 PM
Jul 2

I have seen online people suggesting that the facility be nicknamed Alligator Auschwitz instead of a cute name like Alligator Alcatraz because its more like a concentration camp and people who are forced to stay there under these cruel and inhumane conditions will likely die there too

3Hotdogs

(14,381 posts)
6. ---and empty prisons and jails don't make nobody no money.
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 01:32 PM
Jul 2

We can't have that happenin' can we?

erronis

(20,662 posts)
10. Isn't that the primary reason for building these camps - profit off the bodies?
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 01:46 PM
Jul 2

I'm sure there are "understandings" where the trump family gets a slice out of every prisoner stored in a locker. Payment up front - not based on length of storage.

Mr.Bee

(1,034 posts)
7. General George Washington
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 01:35 PM
Jul 2
George Washington's view on treating prisoners was rooted in both military necessity and a sense of humanity.

He believed in treating prisoners with respect, particularly officers, and emphasized the importance

of adhering to the "laws of war" to limit the violence of conflict.

That, is WHO WE ARE.

ancianita

(41,096 posts)
8. Hartmann is wrong to implicate the 77% of America who did not vote for Trump in 2024. There is no "we." Only HIM.
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 01:37 PM
Jul 2

WE who didn't vote for HIM should reject Hartmann's sweeping claim about who "WE" are.
There is no "we." Only HIM.

Why just HIM? Because as of today over half of those who voted for him disapprove of him in Term 2, those numbers are therefore beyond the 77% who did not vote for him.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-approval-rating-update-polls-2093457

Warpy

(113,703 posts)
9. It's also a money pit
Wed Jul 2, 2025, 01:44 PM
Jul 2

which is why it was finally closed. Everything has to be brought in by boats and waste has to be disposed of the same way. That's a lo of boat traffic and it's expensive, the main reason conditions there were allowed to deteriorate so rapidly.

That's why CA won't reopen the place as more than what it is, a museum for ghoulish tourists, ka ching. If Fatso gets the Feds to take it over, the cost of rehabbing it would far exceed that of razing and replacing the infrastructure, and that would be prohibitive. Still, if his vanity and his desire to sleep better at night win out over any fiscal sense, one hopes he will be one of its inmates.

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