Our side needs to attack "bro culture"

[RJ-MacReady]

No more of this tiptoeing around issues in fear it may offend someone. We need to relentlessly attack and demonized "bro culture" as the toxic hateful and misogynistic ideology it is. Start with Portnoy, Rogan, and Tate. Unfortunately today it requires us to get into the mud pit with the otherside and fight on their level.

[Aristus]

1. What form would this attack take?

Assault rifles?

Not watching seems about the only real way to 'attack' these mouth-breathers.

[Johonny]

4. Attack their masculinity

They have gone full beta on Trump. They are eating his shit. A real man wouldn’t let a man do that to them.

[Aristus]

6. I agree with your assessment.

Except for very reason they're acting like such assclowns is because they already believe someone is attacking their masculinity. If we point out what weak-ass goobers they are by supporting Donnie Diapers, in what way are they going to behave any differently? These guys never reform; they just double down on their putrid behavior.

Something interesting I've noticed: Toxic bros always call themselves "alphas" or "alpha dogs" in order to excuse vile, filthy, and obnoxious behavior. They try to make it sound innate, like something they were born with, and can't change for the better.

Here's the thing: How come nobody calls themselves an "alpha" in order to explain good behavior? "Why did you help that old lady across the street?" - "Because I'm an alpha!"

"Why do you volunteer at the retirement home, reading to the residents and playing games with them?" - "Because I'm an alpha!"

They always call themselves that to justify being a douche, not a good person.

[mr715]

12. Visibly

But within my friend group there are a lot of alpha altruists, that use the language pseudo-unironically.

Isn't alpha out of date though? Thought sigma boys were were its at in terms of prestige.

[mr715]

20. You don't need to use beta,

but I'd definitely subtly question their willingness to say, oh, get figuratively fucked by daddy Trump.

Let us not disrespect those incredible wolves that have shown the whole alpha beta sigma nonsense is just that, empirically proven nonsense.

There are a million types of real men, but there is only one type of Republican man.

[TalenaGor]

31. "Trump Beta Bros"

[valleyrogue]

2. THAT is the core of the GOP support these days.

White males are afraid of losing a tiny sliver of their power, plus they are afraid they won't get laid anymore, and they are lashing out.

Heaven forbid they actually do some self-examination and change their attitude.

Women are just things for them to screw, to bear babies, and to clean up after manbabies. Many women are finally saying "no" to all of it.

[MuseRider]

19. I said NO a very long time ago,

ya know, back in the good old days when I could only have a checking account if my father was the one who signed the checks and his name was on top of mine. "Ok. Hold this for me. After my brother picks me up I can see if my dad will sign this now so please hold it for me?"

You just say no. If you think they will beat you up or other awful things they do then you have to prepare in advance. Or you can just leave if he won't chase you down.

I was young enough that the money problem did not mean as much to me as it does now as a grownup. You could always get a menial job if nothing else, or two.

I never understood why we could not get passed all this a long long time ago. We were mad enough, were sick to death of our "place" enough and strong enough. What did we miss? I believe that we left enough room for women who did not feel so out of power doing the things we were fighting. We did all the good things that used to work but all we got was some press with giggles from the men and sadly some of the women.

Perhaps we should look at it that way. Maybe that has been done and I missed it. There is simply no reason for things to be this way now.

I hate to say much (really) because I finally landed myself in a place where I can be pretty darned free with my only encumbrances of my own. It was not a lot of fun getting here and it is far from perfect. For me, after I got here, it took a lot of thinking and working in my brain to make it suit me.

[blubunyip]

26. there's a resurgence of Alpha male identification

which is not the fault of women.

[MuseRider]

38. Well now

That is a current helpful thought?

Did you really think I needed to hear that we are not at fault or had not noticed the Alpha males all over the place. I was trying to help by revisiting some of what we did because we obviously did not finish it out or we let it slide. We must take care of this and I do not believe that introspection is a bad place to start. It may not work but many ideas might not work but it will take us all. Our herstory is deep and should be a good place to compare strategies. I hardly think any of us here needs educating about this problem so lets start pretending we all have experiences that can help us all along.

[blubunyip]

39. It was just an echo

a minor supportive comment is a problem?

I question whether women have the responsibility "to finish" or to fix everything that concerns women. Are you including men in the finishing and fixing and coming up with strategies proposal? Maybe I misinterpreted your comment. I'm not sure who it was directed to, but obviously I did not get it.

Apologies for not being helpful to you.

[mr715]

3. What is bro culture?

[RJ-MacReady]

7. toxic masculinity

Pretty much. Joe Rogan the whole MMA culture. Tough guy attitude etc etc.

[mr715]

9. Conflicted

Last edited Fri Apr 11, 2025, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

I hate Rogan, but I'm a cisgender heterosexual white male that joined a fraternity and likes dude stuff. I say words like bro. I lift weights and drink too much beer.

Rogan, Portnoy, Tate are also all ridiculous rich. Their avarice is the sin, the "broness" is the facade.

I think there is a online subculture that exists independent of the real life version of the "bros" that are problematic (a la college republicans, etc.).

We need to be authentic. Gritty. Ford tough. Non-toxic masculinity.

[travelingthrulife]

11. I don't like the 'real life' version either. It all wreaks of unearned privilege.

Paternalism is what needs to be defeated and there is plenty of that in 'real life'.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. It's the toxicity. Nothing wrong with masculinity or femininity regardless of DNA profile, XX, XY, XYY, XXY etc. . . nt

[mr715]

18. Agree

There is a constellation of behaviors.

[NEOH]

23. Toxic masculinity with a bit of libertarianism...

Toxic masculinity with a bit of libertarianism thrown in.

[mr715]

25. Yeah

Never seen a group of women coordinate around libertarian values unless, well, it concerned their own bodily autonomy. And once that happens they often have the come to Democratic-Jesus moment.

I worry about the line between "masculinity" and "toxic masculinity". Who gets to be the judge? If I smoke marlboros, so I cross a line instead of camel?

We lost an election because our party is bad at these sort of semantic culture war distinctions. Among other things.


There are plenty good bro-y good guys. Gym positivity folks, for example. IDK, I think this is a really interesting and thorny issue.

[sop]

27. Jeff Foxworthy should do one of his redneck comedy routines about toxic masculinity: "You might be a Bro if..."

[mr715]

30. You might be a bro if

you wear a hoodie with sandals

[sop]

5. This sort of coarse, toxic masculinity, bro culture thing has always existed.

It always lived in the shadows, shunned by polite society, limited to trashy bars, men's sports, smelly locker rooms and all the places teenage boys and man-children like to congregate. Social media sites gave these guys a new place to hang out, share their retrograde views and even make a lot of money from it. The Manosphere has become a growth business, and politicians like Trump tapped into it.

[milestogo]

8. Is that the same as "good 'ol boys" culture?

I have banged my head against it in every single job I've ever had.

[mr715]

10. Do they wear boat shoes?

[mr715]

13. I've ruminated on this

We need to be better bros.

Our side shouldn't attack "bro culture" we should model brotherhood.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. Who needs division over gender? Misogynists. Model and push unity. . . . nt

[mr715]

16. Exactly true

A lot of my bros are female.

If we are quibbling over semantics we lose the broader point.

And model and push unity AND diversity.

[RJ-MacReady]

24. please elaborate?

[mr715]

29. This is likely better handled by an expert in gender studies

I want to preface this to acknowledge the inherent maleness of the use of bro.

My intuition is that the rightward lurch among young men is due to general retarded social development. Many were not socialized during covid. This, coupled with social media has literally altered the brain chemistry of boys and men that were hormonally predisposed to be exposed to certain cues at certain ages.

They are resentful that the world of "history" was even more weighted in their favor. They could smoke in the office, have a whiskey with a client, have an idyllic family. These were myths, but this generation is connected to that story only through grandparents, and there is always going to be an interesting psychosocial dynamic between grandparents and grandkids. Especially when technology is involved.

So what do these boys do? In part they lean into hyper-masculine pathological subcultures a la Andrew Tate. These are probably sick kids that need some help.

Another group become gym bros and get validation from a subset of the population. Online communities are very weird - these are people that use supplements, so drinking bleach for covid isn't too many steps away.

Others, perhaps those less athletically inclined, become sophists. They follow in the shoes of conservative intellectuals, but they lack the education or gravitas. These the bros that aggressively debate on social issues not in good faith, but as an exercise in peacocking.

So, how do good bros respond? Well, for one, we don't beat our partners. We don't commit rape. We don't defend rapists. We condemn sexual misconduct. We ask consent. We acknowledge that woman also want to have sex for fun and not just to make babies.

When we play sports or work out we don't objectivify or harass. We try to improve ourselves, but we remember to respect public spaces and honor other's right to those spaces.

When an asshole wants to debate you, be knowledgable enough to shut them down and do it with enough style that a young man that doesn't have a fully formed ego structure yet remembers that the good guy is also the cool guy.


Please engage more with me on this, I think it is a very fascinating issue and a salient problem for our party.

[RJ-MacReady]

41. I don't have the answers

But what I do know is this contributes to our side losing voters. When I say attack it I mean attack the cancer that is toxic masculinity without saying it. Again I don't have the answers though but I do know its effective at roping young men in. I will say it certain'y hasn't helped but in fact has greatly hurt us by being dismissive of young white men and their concerns. We have pushed them away, in colleges you have some of these nutty professors blaming white people for everything etc etc. This stuff matters why would young white men vote for our party when its supporters openly chastise them and dismiss their concerns? This has to be in the top 3 priorities rebuilding our party. Figure out what we can do to gain their support again.

[mr715]

42. Depends how we build our party

We can probably build a coalition without young white men, but we need every vote we can get.

I, likewise, have no real answers. I think things like "toxic masculinity" is buzzy and triggers those young, white men that want to be triggered.

The way to win these voters back is through charisma or very clearly articulated policy objectives (a very popular platform likely to be implemented).

My best friend is lost to Rogan. There is a slippery slope from asking questions to believing everything. This is a POC from the big city and a public sector employee.

So, submitted, if we want "bros" how do you think we open the party to them without surrendering core values?

[betsuni]

43. How do Democrats "openly chastise them and dismiss their concerns"?

[RJ-MacReady]

44. Check social media

Yes it's not Democratic politicians for most part. It's the "internet far left" so to speak. The minority fringes who get tied to our party fair or not. Downplaying concerns from white men who are struggling, dismissive terms like "check your white privilege". Then some on colleges essentially blaming white students for "colonialism".

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. Bro culture pushing SAVE Act voting rights destruction: many women do not have birth certificate names. Hillary alarmed!

[still-prayin4rain]

21. Ugh... totally agree

[multigraincracker]

28. Behaviorism.

To change, or shape behavior, reward good behavior and ignore bad behavior.
I have no problem ignoring it.

[Doodley]

32. Attacking Trump supporters isn't a good idea.

[mr715]

33. Well...

I wouldn't mind a few of them getting hit by rocks.

[republianmushroom]

34. IMO, our side needs to learn to attack period.

[wolfie001]

35. Hear Hear!!!

[DonCoquixote]

36. ANOTHER TERM STOLEN BY THE RIGHT

ala "woke"

the issue is that, like the parasites they are, they take something that can be healthy, and steal it's energy so that it goes towards them on their turf. It is easy to say MMA is "bro" until of course you get beat by some of the outright deadly FEMALE mma that can put many men to shame. Woke got twisted into ten thousand things it never was; it was always about the fact people want to have some courtesy, the whole "do onto others" instead of being this viral thing Musk and Trump turned it into.

In other words, when people are toxic, we need to call them out for being Toxic, as in what the hell does beating women black and browns have to do with you being a cowboy? If ye grunt out "tradition" then we can tell them that unless they hop into a time machine, they cannto be that version of a cowboy, as they d not exist anymore, for good reasons. Those people ae not "bros" they are boys, who like Trump and Musk, do not want to grow up and take responsibilities.

Our side, we need to hold our ground, not to let these people steal out terms and redifnine them to where we get on du and wonder where our Tools went.

[CentralBlueTexan]

37. Not new

The so-called “bro culture” has always been promoted by conservative religion. Unfortunately religion has been used to keep the female of the species in their “proper” place

[JI7]

40. The ridiculing of Musk is a good start