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Budget resolution passes because a few Democrats held on too long
Before thinking it's ageist to suggest older, sicker Democrats to step down...
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Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)... no one should ignore the push for younger politicians. Joe's biggest vulnerability, fair or not, was his age and it became abundantly clear that it was one issue he'd be unable to correct regardless how much he attempted to.
We need to be more aware of this at all levels.
The most damning thing I heard from someone the other day is that the Democrats feel like the party of old people. That ALWAYS was the GOP growing up. Like, they were consistently mocked for how old they appeared to be.
Outside Trump, the face of the modern GOP is mostly Gen-Xers and Elder Millennials.
Democrats? I think we have a lot of opportunity with the likes of AOC and others but the party still relies heavily on older, out of step reps like Schumer.
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)and he's clearly proven that he's unfit. BTW, the repugs have the votes to pass their awful legislation period even if all dems had voted.
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)Poll after poll told us that more Americans were concerned with his age than Trump's but of course everyone ignored the polls because no way could they be right. Oops.
And no, it wouldn't have passed if all Democrats voted (and voted no) unless two Republicans who voted no flipped.
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)while they clearly ignored tRump's rapidly deteriorating mental state. The tariff disaster is further proof of tRump's rapidly deteriorating mental state.
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)Biden's invisible campaign prior to the debate didn't help.
Trump is an idiot. He gets out there and babbles. He's always done that, tho. But the difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump is always in front of a microphone and Biden rarely did interviews or press conferences, which led to many people questioning whether he was being hidden. It's not a fair criticism but it's also one the Biden team bet on not being an issue and it clearly proved to be an issue because it sunk his chances at winning four more years despite not being that much older than Trump.
In the end, Biden held fewer press conferences and did fewer interviews than any president since before Carter. That fueled the narrative and yes, the media unfairly focused in on it - but it only stuck because Biden was unable to reassure Americans.
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)The pro repug media refused to cover the numerous gaffes tRump made during his campaign speeches as in repeatedly saying the wrong location for where he was speaking and repeatedly mixing up the names of the people he was referring to in his speeches. That's pretty clear evidence of tRump's cognitive decline that the pro repug media repeatedly and still continues to ignore.
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)Trump's "gaffes" were covered extensively. The media focused weeks on his comments about sharks and batteries. It's actually a big reason the Biden team decided to debate Trump in June - because they thought getting Trump in front of a large audience with his unhinged rants would end him. It didn't.
The difference between Trump's gaffes and Biden's issues is that Trump has ALWAYS been like this. Go listen to his ramblings about Obama's birth certificate around 2009 and 2010. They were just as unhinged as his comments today.
Biden also didn't help himself by running a low-key campaign where they rarely did interviews, held zero town halls and opted for short, small events while Trump was speaking to every microphone that was put in front of his fat face.
Biden's team purposely ignored the age concerns until it became too much after the debate. Then they realized it was an issue that could not be avoided anymore and they completely overhauled the way Biden campaigned, by having more rallies, doing multiple interviews (including with George Stephanopoulos and Lester Holt), having him call into Morning Joe (which was extremely rare) and then holding a major press conference during the NATO summit.
None of that was there the months leading up to the debate and only became an issue because his debate performance was so alarming that his internal numbers, which weren't great to begin with, nosedived to the point that even New York was in play.
Democrats would have been completely wiped out if Biden had not agreed to that debate and instead debated Trump after locking up the primary because then it would have been too late. You likely would have seen senate candidates in swing states completely breaking with the Biden campaign over fears of losing. And with how narrow Arizona, Michigan, Nevada and Wisconsin were in the senate races, those seats probably do go Republican in this scenario.
I was a huge advocate of Biden staying in the race last summer but to be honest, in retrospect, things would have been a lot worse if he did. Democrats took it on the chin in November but at least were able to hold onto a few senate seats. That doesn't happen with Biden in the race.
And it wasn't because the media was unfair to him. It was because Biden's campaign refused to attempt to alleviate the concerns voters had about about his age and then he went out and had maybe the worst debate performance in the history of presidential debates and seemed to support those concerns.
"We finally beat Medicare" would have haunted Biden the whole campaign.
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)Your wanting to crucify Biden and call him senile for 1 bad debate while you ignore tRump's clear and catastrophic mental decline with his disastrous tariffs and efforts to destroy the U.S. constitution defies any logic. BTW, the corporate media is still sane washing tRump.
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)So let's just wrap this up.
I never called Biden senile. But that doesn't change the fact Biden's team refused to attempt to alleviate the issue until it was too late and his debate collapsed his campaign.
It was political malpractice to ignore his biggest weakness for as long as they did. The campaign knew Biden's age was his biggest issue, even going back to 2022 before Trump even announced his bid for a second term. But they didn't move on it.
Poll after poll, starting in late 2021, indicated Americans had reservations about Biden's age and they didn't move to fix the issue.
You can complain about the corporate media but that is frankly a lazy and dubious take because it doesn't change the reality that the issue still remained through 2024 without any attempt to actually fix it.
Guess when Joe Biden last held an independent town hall to answer questions from voters?
It was CNN's town hall hosted by Don Lemon in June, 2021.
After that, only other town hall he held was a White House-sponsored town hall with veterans in December, 2022. So, a town hall where the audience was picked by the White House and not CNN like his previous town hall in 2021.
But even that was nearly two years before the 2024 presidential election.
There was zero urgency with the Biden campaign to address the concerns about his age. He ran, up until dropping out, maybe the least-aggressive campaign for reelection ever. Obama in 2012 was out-campaigning Biden 2-1 by the summer of his reelection.
The problem WAS Biden's team refusal to do anything about the issue. Ignoring it was a fatal mistake and why Biden was thrown under the bus after his disastrous debate performance.
That's on Biden and his team for refusing to run a spirited campaign that put Biden front-and-center and in the public's eyes consistently so they could feel reassured that he had the mental acuity to run this country.
But instead, they opted for a low-key campaign where they reached far fewer voters.
They thought they could run a 2020-style campaign in 2024 but failed to realize that 2020 was an anomaly and voters were far less concerned about Biden's age than they became in 2024.
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)You want to crucify Biden for 1 bad debate while you at the same time want to ignore 10 years of evidence that makes it beyond clear that tRump is in serious mental decline and is clearly unhinged. The Biden economy was the envy of the world. Our country was finally beginning to address climate change, manufacturing jobs were coming back. Our alliances around the world were stronger than ever. In 82 days the mentally unhinged tRump has destroyed everything. What alternate universe are you living in?
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)You just can't debate on the level, huh?
It wasn't JUST the debate. I have said that multiple times. You either are purposely ignoring that aspect so you can continue your disingenuous debate or not comprehending it. Either way, that's not my problem I guess?
I said the debate was emblematic of the entire failed campaign apparatus. Biden's team knew back in 2021 that Americans were concerned over his age and they did not take any steps to help alleviate those concerns. They basically put him in a political cocoon and hoped they could coast to a win without having to put in the work showing the American people that Biden was not only mentally fit for four more years but also had the stamina for those four years.
It was never the campaign's priority to lower the concerns, even though the concerns were there. Polling told us this. Polling showed that voters felt Biden was too old and instead of attempting to correct that perception, the campaign decided to ignore it.
THAT is what doomed Biden. The debate was only the point where it became clear Biden might not be up for reelection. Prior to that, Biden was so guarded and hidden from the press that we didn't have anything to go on - as his appearances were entirely scripted speeches and small meet-and-greets.
Do I personally think Biden had the mental acuity to run the country for four more years? Sure. But I definitely believe the campaign, and the White House, must have had concerns about his age because he was far less visible than any president we've seen during the TV (and now internet) age. Biden held fewer press conferences and fewer interviews than any president over the last 40 years. He stopped doing town halls after 2022. His campaign openly said they were not going to hold mega-rallies and instead focus on retail politics (which is good if you're running for a congressional or senate seat in one state - not necessarily a country-wide campaign) and forgo the traditional campaigning.
It wasn't until the debate that the shit hit the fan and they corrected. But the debate was only as harmful as it was because the White House, Biden and his campaign let the age issue persist without any attempt to push back against it. He could have done multiple interviews, even with local media, held town halls, called into Morning Joe, held press conferences at the White House to show that he had the stamina and mental toughness to do the job for four more years.
None of that happened until the debate sunk him and it was too late. The debate was probably the first time in a long time where the American people saw Biden off script and it killed him. No amount of scripted speeches was going to salvage that debate performance. But the fact there weren't many unscripted moments prior to the debate, at least over the two years leading up to the election, probably shows us why the debate was so brutal for Biden.
Even Ron Klain, Biden's former Chief of Staff and someone Biden brought back to debate prep, is claiming that the President was isolated and unprepared for the debate.
Biden's campaign was a disaster. In hindsight, we know that they were setting him up to fail because they either didn't trust Biden because they had concerns about his image, or they were just plain incompetent because for months they failed at working to address the age issue ... which only made the debate all the more disastrous.
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)You seem to think that the media can do no wrong. You don't seem to understand that most of the media is owned by big corporations who want their big tax cuts and to not have to pay their workers a living wage. The media has had their pro repug view on full display for the last 25 years. In Campaign 2000, the pro repug media repeatedly trashed Al Gore while they fawned over W for the entire campaign. I suggest you browse through the archives at www.dailyhowler.com to find the specific media coverage that names the media outlets and provides detailed description and specific quotes from the media's coverage to prove the bias. It's the only written record that exists. The 2016 campaign was all about Hilary's emails combined with the fact that the media did not take tRump and the threa that he posed seriously. You continue to ignore the fact that tRump is only 3 years younger than Biden. You also ignore that the NYT got its nose bent when Biden gave Howard Stern an interview instead of Biden. The NYT went after Biden with a vengeance. tRump's catastrophic tariffs that keep changing by the day are clear proof of tRump's mental decline despite the fact that tRump will never allow the White House medical office to tell the truth. You're the one who can't handle facts and evidence. BTW, I have 24 years experience working on dem election campaigns, everything from local state legislativ campaigns all the way to Presidential cam[aigns so I'm not a novice at this. What kind of election campaign experience do you have?
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)I get it. You can't actually rebut anything I've said. Nothing in your post has anything to do with what I said, which is impressive since there was a lot of words despite completely ignoring the overall discussion.
Let's just wrap this up: Joe Biden and his campaign did nothing to combat the narrative he was too old. It doesn't matter how the narrative started or why it started. It was there. And their failure to address it is why he was forced to step aside and end his reelection campaign.
BTW: I have plenty of campaign experience and am co-chair of my state party. I utilized that experience all last year when I kept saying the election was a toss-up based on what I was hearing from the campaign and other state officials and Harris very well could lose, only to get attacked by many here for it.
I knew Trump was very possibly going to win while this place whistled past the graveyard convinced there was no chance of it ever happening.
I'm a realist and it's why I'm so successful in my field: I don't peddle false-hope and I don't make excuses.
Response to Self Esteem (Reply #21)
Post removed
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)You're on your own crusade having a conversation irrelevant to anything we've discussed. And now that you're losing the debate, you're going for the insults and personal attacks.
Good luck with that.
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)You can learn about the media's pro repug bias by scrolling through the archives at www.dailyhowler.com. This archive provides specific and detailed examples of the media's war against Al Gore while they let W off the hook in campaign 2000. They provide the specific media coverage, the actual author of the media coverage and specifically document the bias. You're clearly not willing to face the reality of the media's pro repug bias so i can't help you. You think you know it all but you've never worked on an election campaign and had to face pro repug media bias. tRump's erratic economy killing tariffs are clear evidence of tRump's mental decline that you refuse to acknowledge. In clear contrast, Biden got the Inflation reduction Act and the chips Act passed and left tRump an economy that was the envy of the world that the mentally declining tRump has now ruined. These are all facts that you refuse to face. It's time for you to move on.
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)You seem to be lost in the woods debating an issue I am not. The issue is irrelevant to my point. The perception over Biden's age was real. It doesn't matter how that perception formed. It was real and it was his biggest vulnerability as the nominee.
My point, which you seem to continue to deflect from, is that Biden and his team failed to address the perception. Conceding the media was bias against Biden doesn't fix the issue and his team refused to adapt. They somehow believed it wasn't near the factor it was despite polling showing it was a major factor.
Here's my question to you: in 2024, what steps do you think Biden's team made to lessen the concerns about his age? I want tangible, actual moments you can point to where Biden's team proactively attempted to dispel the age issue.
You can't point to anything because it doesn't exist outside his scripted State of the Union speech.
Biden, prior to the debate fiasco, was running one of the lowkey presidential debates in history. He was not holding major rallies. He was not doing interviews. He was not holding press conferences or town halls. The bulk of his campaign prior to the debate was holding small events giving 15 minute stump speeches and not taking any questions - and doing small, scripted events like going to a supporter's house for dinner.
That was the campaign Biden's team was set to run throughout 2024 and it didn't address the major elephant in the room - his age. Instead, they thought they could run on the successes and ignore the age issue. Again, it doesn't matter why the age issue was an issue but it was an issue. And that was the problem: Biden's team refused to address the issue.
Well by not addressing the age issue, it just set him up for failure at that debate.
And sure enough...
krawhitham
(4,978 posts)From this point of view, you are the one clearly not debating in good faith
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)They keep pushing an argument no one is making. I am not debating if the media was fair to Joe Biden or not. That has been the extent of their replies, completely ignoring the point at hand: Americans felt Biden was too old for the job and that became a persistent campaign issue that Biden and his team refused to address. It culminated in his bad debate performance, which only fed into the narrative that this whole discussion is built around: that Americans doubted Biden's mental fitness.
It is a bad faith argument because they keep trying to debate something that is irrelevant and that was the fact perception became reality and the Biden team refused to do anything to correct it. They actively opted to ignore the media narrative, whether it was fair or not, and it crippled his ability to run an effective campaign.
krawhitham
(4,978 posts)The campaign said the internal numbers showed him still winning a close race, but yet you are claiming his internal numbers "weren't great to begin with, nosedived to the point that even New York was in play. "
It seems you are just going off of what Jon Favreau said on a podcast while he was defending pushing Joe out, He offered no proof and was clearly just trying to cover his on ass because the push to get rid of Joe allowed trump to win
Jon Favreau had no access to Joe's campaign or their internal numbers
But if you want numbers backed up by facts, how about a study by multiple colleges , let go with this one lead by: Northeastern University, Harvard University, University of Rochester, Rutgers University, & Harvard Medical School
Biden’s poor debate performance had almost no impact on voter preference
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/s32r38vj3sct3kkrijoyw/CHIP50-REPORT-105-DEBATE-2024.pdf?rlkey=nq301dg3j6bdqt42o67eo74nb&e=2&dl=0
https://osf.io/preprints/osf/trvfb_v1
Self Esteem
(2,057 posts)Every Monday through most 2024, I'd meet with every other state party and the Biden campaign (then the Harris campaign) as well as the congressional campaigns to go over the state of the race. Biden's internal numbers collapsed after the debate. What you're showing are not internal polls. Those are public-aligned polls.
I also saw the polls throughout 2024 with Harris, which were far less bullish than a lot of people on this site wanted to admit and yet turned out to be correct (Harris was down in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and only up marginally in Michigan through most of October).
Biden's internals were not good after the debate. Worse, senate internals took a nosedive with 'em.
RJ-MacReady
(365 posts)I don't understand the resistance to pressuring elderly representatives to step down after their term?
dsc
(52,867 posts)and had a gall bladder issue. I am wondering once we hit 50 should be put on an ice floe.
usonian
(17,124 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 11, 2025, 03:35 AM - Edit history (1)
People were whipped into a frenzy of false belief that the country was in a depression caused by immigrants, gays, and so on.
Trump reflected that induced hate and anger.
bluestarone
(19,577 posts)On BILLBOARDS in every state MANY TIMES!!!
Nimble_Idea
(2,623 posts)
chowder66
(10,401 posts)Pretty soon a female rep who has a complicated pregnancy will need to resign.
Or Reps or Senators with disabilities.
Look, I agree sometimes people need to know when to leave a job but most do not need to.
mcar
(44,457 posts)Yeah, this is ageist BS.
JCMach1
(28,609 posts)from her memory care due to cuts in Medicaid.
Nimble_Idea
(2,623 posts)
