Tariffs may have been a good idea

[Pototan]

30 years ago, or better yet not pass NAFTA. But now that those international trade deals and the advent of advanced technological economic techniques, the day has long since passed to bring back now non-existent manufacturing jobs.

There may always be a place for limited, targeted tariffs, but Trump's madness to undo 30 years of trade policy in 3 months could cause a worldwide depression.

[cachukis]

1. A display of vengeance. A weakness of the human

condition.

[Johnny2X2X]

2. Trump has successfully used free trade as a substitute for the real problems in the US

Free Trade, including NAFTA, and free trade policy in general has made the US incredibly prosperous. Free Trade the last 50 years has grown our economy from less than $3T to almost $30T annually. Free Trade is not the problem! The problem is how that money is distributed in the US. Conservative tax policy. Conservative policies that got rid of unions, pensions, and regulations. Conservative policies that have damaged the education system. Conservative efforts to keep wages low and to make health care more expensive. Right on down the line, everything the Cons are blaming on Free Trade right now was actually caused by Conservative policy against working people.

WIth the growth in the economy and the incredible gains in productivity, the middle class in the US should be the envy of the world. Average incomes should be in excess of $150K. Minimum wage should be $30 an hour. Health care and college should be free. We should have th best infrastructure, schools, and hospitals in the world. Instead of all of these things, we instead have a billionaire class who took 90% of the gains for themselves and left he rest of us to fight over the scraps.

Don't let them pretend it was free trade that did this to the middle class when it was clear Conservatives who did it.

[Taylor Picker]

3. Bravo! Well said.

[paleotn]

12. Absolutely! Very well said!

Trade has driven human development sine the Bronze Age and probably long before that. Protectionism has been a refuge for the monied classes for centuries. The only people they’re protecting are themselves. It’s what we as a people decide to do with wealth generated by trade that’s the real issue.

Trade, specifically restriction thereof, was one driving factor of our revolution. London monied classrs controlling colonial commerce. Once again, the only people they were protecting were themselves.

[yardwork]

13. THIS.

People blame NAFTA. I remember when it was enacted. Manufacturing jobs were leaving the US no matter what we did. NAFTA was a way to control that somewhat.

People romanticize manufacturing and mining jobs. They're not that great. Most people would prefer to do something else that doesn't destroy their bodies.

[blubunyip]

16. Truth

We can debate the details forever, but this pretty much says it all. And this is what has to change.

This sad state will only change with people power. The corporates will never freely give. They only take. Keep fighting and buy as little as possible.

[Dr. T]

17. These same people have always dreamed

that they wouldn't have to go off-shore for cheap labor. They want cheap labor right here in their own back yard.

[bronxiteforever]

4. Automation and robotics have doomed

any great manufacturing rebuild that will produce Bethlehem steel shift type jobs. Just like coal mining isn’t coming back. TSF is living in the past and we are failing nation because we are surrendering our science and technology jobs and our defense manufacturing.

The self destructive brain drain and technology gap will wreck future generations and have the US on its knees begging for crumbs. Add the end of the federal government and the billionaire baronial class fleecing the last cash left as they head off for an island with their private army, and the masses are left with the burning bag of poop that once was this country.

[mucifer]

5. Even if they were a great idea

The words TSF used publicly communicating with our former allies is insane.

[Meowmee]

6. Obviously, it was not a good idea because trillions of dollars were lost

Also not a good idea to start threatening your allies that you’re going to take over their country, etc., which was a part of the tariff crap. The psycho needs to be removed as soon as possible. I have no doubt that he and many others also committed insider trading with this fiasco.

[Happy Hoosier]

7. Tageted tariffs CAN be a good idea.

Broad-based tariffs rarely are.

But automation is killing manufacturing jobs and anti-union policies are making most of those that remain lower-tier jobs.

The days when unskilled or low-skilled jobs in the right industries can get you in to the middle-class are pretty much gone in this country.

[Blue Full Moon]

8. Dukakis and his made in America

[quaker bill]

9. Much more than 30 years ago

Back in the day when they were used as a major source of revenue, industries were local. In short, we made stuff here out of resources we gathered here. They made stuff there out of resources they gathered there. There was no such thing as a just in time inventory system that sourced components from across the planet, no one could even do business remotely that way.

In that context, a tariff might protect a local industry cleanly by making competitive foriegn goods more expensive. Today, in that food, resources, and components are sourced globally, tariffs raise the prices for both domestic and foreign produced goods indiscriminately in varying amounts. in that parts and components might even cross a border more than once, there are potential compounding effects. Let's say the steel comes here and is tariffed at the border, it is then cut and stamped into parts here which are then shipped to Canada or Mexico for assembly being tariffed at the border, the assembled parts are then shipped back to be further assembled into a car here, tariffed again at the border....

These are simply an archaic idea that was never all that good in the first place

[gab13by13]

10. Krasnov didn't do this for economic reasons

Krasnov showed the world how powerful he is, how dangerous he is. Krasnov did this so that countries would pay him protection money to ease back the tariffs.

Krasnov did this to get rich. Occam's Razor. People have no idea how Krasnov thinks.

[Gore1FL]

11. I'm more of a free-trade with labor protection kind of person.

Tariffs should not be put in place for revenue purposes.

[mvd]

15. Agree

Terms of major free trade deals should have been more labor friendly. But I don’t believe in blocking out free trade or those ridiculous Trump tariffs.

[mdbl]

14. Agreed. They should have been tried waaay before Clinton was in office.

After that was the Wal-Martinization of our economy where Wal-mart forced all manufacturing mostly to China causing all our factories to close.

[Dr. T]

18. It's the narcissist in him. When His Holiness farts,

the markets crash. When he burps, the market soars. He thinks it's funny. Sit, stand, speak. Like a well-trained dog.

[Polybius]

19. Pat Buchanan was a big supporter of tariffs back then

He made it a central issue of his campaigns. At the time, no other politician running mentioned them.

[Pototan]

20. Ross Perot did

and Dick Gephardt in the Dem. Primaries.

[Polybius]

22. Thank you

I totally forgot about Perot, and didn't know about Gephardt.

[Skittles]

23. haven't heard about him in some time

looked him up, he is 86 now........

[Self Esteem]

21. Tariffs don't work in a modern economy.

At least to the extent being pushed now.

The US has benefited greatly from free trade. It's a big reason FDR was such a proponent for it.

The reality is that I don't think Americans appreciate the luxury they have largely due to free trade.

Things that, 50 years ago were seen as luxury items that only the upper middle class had are now available to every American. TVs, washers, dryers, fridges - they're all easily affordable for even the most average income household. That was not the case a generation ago.

You could not get a decent sized TV for $150.

Or other appliances for the price you see now.

Tariffs undo all that.

Really, the biggest problem facing America right now is housing and tariffs certainly aren't going to fix that.