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H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 03:18 PM 6 hrs ago

Goals

"Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can." —Arthur Ashe


In my hand is my "official absentee ballot." It will go out in the mail in the morning. Though I live in the wilderness of upstate New York, where both republicans and independents far outnumber Democrats, I am confident that the Harris - Walz ticket will do much better here than our party has done in previous presidential elections.

Last night, I had a phone call from an old hippie who became a registered voter in 2016. At that time, he recognized that the republican nominee was the last person on earth who should be president. He is a member of our party, who is in a position that allows him to donate sums of money to various candidates' campaigns. As usual, he had called me in early September, to ask what Democrats I thought were the most important to invest in.

His call last night reminded me of an OP/thread I had read here on DU a few days back. It had to do with someone's concerns that the Harris campaign was more focused on gaining the votes of republicans and former republicans than on the left of our party, and independents who left our party because it has shifted to the right over recent decades. This journalist does not want the campaign to make the same errors as happened in 2016.

My friend had been having coffee with others of our generation earlier in the day. He said that when elected, he hopes President Harris offers a position to Liz Cheney. He admires her work with the January 6 Committee. Another guy said that doing the right thing should be expected, not viewed as noble. He said upholding one's oath of office should be the rule, not the exception. Still another said he doesn't want a neoconservative to have any position in the administration.

My friend recognizes that I am among the furthest left in the Democratic Party. He remembers decades ago, asking me why I bothered with "politics"? Last night, his question was if I thought Liz Cheney should be considered for an administration position? I started by saying that her taking a leading role on the J6C was the exception in today's maga party. More, she is a conservative -- not neoconservative. She can't be mistaken for open-minded on social issues. Her record on women's choice is terrible. And she did vote for the felon in 2020.

The only position that she could be offered that would not be viewed as a betrayal to Democratic Party values, in my opinion, would be in the DOJ, investigating and prosecuting political crime. She's proved herself in that limited area. But no offer should be made before the election.

I told him that yes, VP Harris did appear on stage with Cheney. Obviously the media will cover that. But she also has been spending much more time campaigning on issues that are extremely important to the middle class. She is the candidate who recognizes that human activities have influenced climate change, and would advance steps to reduce that. And she is the candidate that knows that women have the absolute right to control their bodies.

I said that as leftists, we have the duty to remind others that we must start where we are. To be here, now. To deal with the reality of the era we are in, and the internal threats our country faces. That VP Harris is not only the best choice, but she is a good choice for moving towards our common goals.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Goals (Original Post) H2O Man 6 hrs ago OP
One of my favorite words of wisdom BOSSHOG 5 hrs ago #1
Very good! H2O Man 4 hrs ago #4
I like him and don't like him all at the same time. BOSSHOG 4 hrs ago #5
There has never been H2O Man 1 hr ago #9
It's existential. I've never known of a more existential political campaign in my lifetime. Dennis Donovan 5 hrs ago #2
I think that H2O Man 4 hrs ago #6
Aside from saving our Constitutional republic ... Martin Eden 4 hrs ago #3
No. H2O Man 4 hrs ago #7
Don't invite a fox (or a wolf) into the henhouse. Martin Eden 4 hrs ago #8
Right. H2O Man 1 hr ago #10
Liz Cheney has been known to lie through her teeth Saoirse9 51 min ago #11
Right. H2O Man 32 min ago #14
Thank you. spanone 46 min ago #12
Thank you. H2O Man 31 min ago #15
Sure she's a neocon... she's a prototype neocon. WarGamer 39 min ago #13
That depends entirely H2O Man 24 min ago #16
My exposure to Neoconservatism is primarily from the book by Justin Vaisse, Senior Fellow at Brookings WarGamer 16 min ago #17
King's speech H2O Man 8 min ago #18
you're right, of course... and I appreciate your knowledge. WarGamer 5 min ago #19
In my first H2O Man 1 min ago #21
Many here will disagree with me, but I think the neocons are more dangerous than MAGA. WarGamer 4 min ago #20

BOSSHOG

(39,126 posts)
1. One of my favorite words of wisdom
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 03:25 PM
5 hrs ago

Whether you think you can or you can’t, you’re right - Henry Ford 1903

I know Ford wasn’t the best role model, but the quote has passed my test of time for at least 40 years. Use to aggravate my Sailors with it.

Make America Greater? Yes we lefties can. With what we got.

H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
4. Very good!
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 04:27 PM
4 hrs ago

Ford was a curious character, for sure. The guy did move to make cars available to ther middle class. And he promoted the League of Nations. Obviously, his antisemitism was terrible, and extremely harmful to this country and the world. So that always has to be recognized.

Good saying, though!

H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
9. There has never been
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 08:08 PM
1 hr ago

a perfect human being, nor will there ever be. Some imperfections are more toxic, including hatred for any minority groups. I try to be careful how I judge people, especially those from the past. Human beings are such strange creatures.

Dennis Donovan

(23,347 posts)
2. It's existential. I've never known of a more existential political campaign in my lifetime.
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 03:27 PM
5 hrs ago

My political thing started in '72, stuffing envelopes and going door-to-door for McGovern / Shriver.

Never have I felt an existentiality like this one.

Talk me down...

H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
6. I think that
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 04:34 PM
4 hrs ago

we are going to win at the ballot box. And electoral college. My concern is winning by a wide enough margin that the attempts to steal the election -- which will happen as surely as the sun rising in the east -- clearly fail at every level.

I do think that the US will have to undergo the change in values that King spoke about on April 4, 1967, if the country is to survive. And that change can only begin to take place after we crush the maga infection.

I re-watched the documentary "Unfit to Serve" last night. I recommend it for every Democrat and independent at this time. It should motivate people to be active participants in this year's elections.

Martin Eden

(13,273 posts)
3. Aside from saving our Constitutional republic ...
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 04:27 PM
4 hrs ago

Does Liz Cheney support any Democratic domestic policy goals?

H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
7. No.
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 04:49 PM
4 hrs ago

People need to remember her record. The only good thing she has done -- at least in my opinion -- was serving on the J6 Committee. She is only slightly less toxic than her war criminal father. Thus, if she had a position limited to prosecuting the felon's maga supporters, including republicans in office that were involved in preparations for January 6, I could be okay with it at some unsteady level.

Some of the fawning over Liz Cheney reminds me of some comments in a discussion after the VP debate (on another forum). A lady kept saying how "refreshing" it was to watch a civil debate. Now, I've watched every VP debate ever televised, and can't recall a single fist fight breaking out. They've all been civil, as have presidential debates pre-felon. So I noted that Vance lied over and again. She countered with "he was very civil, which was refreshing." Without using the word, I suggested she needed to refresh her memory -- for Vance would not even admit that President Biden won in 2020. That alone disqualifies him from any kind comment.

I noted that Malcolm X used to talk about the difference between a wolf and a fox. A wolf will simply attack you, while a fox will smile to your face, and attack you from behind. But both are from the same canine family.

Martin Eden

(13,273 posts)
8. Don't invite a fox (or a wolf) into the henhouse.
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 05:14 PM
4 hrs ago

Even if they chased away a different predator.

Vance impersonated a reasonable man in the VP debate. His lies were camouflaged in slick rhetoric crafted to fool low information voters.

H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
10. Right.
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 08:11 PM
1 hr ago

By chance, a young fox chased my hen around last week. The fox got two mouthfuls of feathers, but the hen got away. This still upsets the hen, as she hides most of the day.

I still like that fox much, much more than snake oil salespersons.

Saoirse9

(3,774 posts)
11. Liz Cheney has been known to lie through her teeth
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 08:28 PM
51 min ago

I am glad she supports Kamala. Grateful even.

But as soon as the danger is over she will probably go back to lying.

Here she is, lying:

WarGamer

(14,555 posts)
13. Sure she's a neocon... she's a prototype neocon.
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 08:40 PM
39 min ago

Her view on social issues doesn't change being a neocon.

It's inaccurate to say "neocons can't be socially conservative"

The primary goal of the neocon is American Hegemony. That means spreading the roots of US style "democracy" far and wide to countries like Iraq, Libya and Egypt.

Their allegiance is military-first, using corporate interests to fund their cause and dangling carrots to voters to attract Republican votes.

So a neocon can be socially conservative... like Cheney or not so much, like Bill Kristol.

They still wear the same Jersey.

H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
16. That depends entirely
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 08:55 PM
24 min ago

on if you want to use the word correctly, which requires knowing about when it was first used -- specifically -- to describe those who were social liberals but war hawks. A great example was Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

I think we benefit from keeping in mind the words of the ancient philosopher Confucius, when asked what he would do if given ultimate power: "Insist that people use words correctly."

One need not take my word on this, of course. Simply read Taylor Branch's "At Canann's Edge: America in the King Years 1965 - 1968." I could provide the page numbers, if needed.

WarGamer

(14,555 posts)
17. My exposure to Neoconservatism is primarily from the book by Justin Vaisse, Senior Fellow at Brookings
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 09:04 PM
16 min ago

He identifies three primary stages of the movement, starting with the 60's and folks like Bill's Daddy, Irving and other Democrats who were unhappy with anti-war/civil rights protests, free love, hippies and grass.

And ending with Shrub, the Cheneys, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the "spread Democracy at the barrel of an M-16 crew"

I'm extremely familiar with the term.


H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
18. King's speech
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 09:12 PM
8 min ago

"A Time to Break Silence" resulted in the expansion of neoconservatism. It included Democrats and republicans. They were social liberals, but thought they knew better than King et al. They believed in violence abroad, and supporting one specific country in the Middle East.

Vaiss is a good source. And the movement became more "neo" with the transformation of people using the term to describe the Reagan-Bush types. However, the correct term for them is "necroconservative."

WarGamer

(14,555 posts)
19. you're right, of course... and I appreciate your knowledge.
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 09:14 PM
5 min ago

Yes, I was thinking more Reagan/Shrub era neoconservatism when I was thinking of Liz and Dick.

Crazy that it started off as grumpy Democrats in the 60's.

H2O Man

(74,942 posts)
21. In my first
Sat Oct 5, 2024, 09:18 PM
1 min ago

year on DU, I coined the term "necroconservative." It is the best description of their ilk.

There were Democrats who supported King so long as he stuck to coffee counters and public restrooms. But when he began to speak out on what he identified as the moral sickness in this country, they turned on him. Viciously.

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