BREAKING: Senate invokes Cloture on Ukraine aid

[brooklynite]

Link to tweet

[LeftInTX]

1. Yay!!!

Shame on Ted Cruz!!!!

Link to tweet

[niyad]

60. I am surprised that aqua buddha's name is not on that list.

[honest.abe]

66. Final vote happening now.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?535093-1/senate-session&live

[MarineCombatEngineer]

69. Yay.

Should've happened months ago but at least its finally happening.

[honest.abe]

75. It's passed. Already 75 ayes.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

76. Excellent!!!!!!

[OAITW r.2.0]

79. Which puts this MTG in the spotlight. You don't fucking understand where this Country is

on American values. Hint. It's not Trump or Putin on aid to Ukraine. I hope this Democratic General running against MTG will do a debate with her. I would PPV this.

[LeftInTX]

82. This is a BFD...LOL

At least it is in this day and age.

Shades of Obamacare..LOL

[captain queeg]

2. Wow. Good news. It's about time.

[Warpy]

37. That was expected, especially for Sanders

who found the the aid to Israel offensive, considering their continuing obliteration of Gaza. Not sure about Markley.

Remember, this wasn't just a Ukrainian aid package. There was a lot of stuff in there.

[RandySF]

3. Merkley and Sanders voted No - WTF?

[TBF]

5. Sanders really hates Netanyahu -

he has been in favor of 2 separate states for much longer than most people have been listening. IDK if he has a problem with Ukraine as well, but I do know his position on Israel.

In this circumstance I wish he'd let it go and vote on the package, but he is stubborn.

[edisdead]

12. And a two state solution has been rejected over and over

By Palestinians.

[Kennah]

25. Dating back to the Balfour Declaration

[TBF]

49. I know. I still think it is the right answer.

I can't do anything about leaders being crazy (whether it's Palestinian, Israeli, etc.) I think most of us know that we're dealing with extremists on both sides and that makes it incredibly difficult.

[Cha]

31. This is For Ukraine, too. Not a good look, imo

[brush]

44. Now that the bill has passed, hope Pres. Biden oks aid to UKraine and Taiwan....

but makes portion to Israel conditional on meeting conditons required for Gaza citizens security.

[summer_in_TX]

85. Sanders has many good positions, but he is an ideologue.

I've always distrusted ideologues as far as elected office, no matter how many things I agree with them about. They're all too prone to an extremist approach.

[TBF]

89. Agree - he does pretty well in the Senate but I have come to the conclusion that

he wouldn't have been the best president. I do agree with him on many (most) issues theoretically, but I would've voted yes on this bill due to Ukraine and dealt with Israel on another day. It's too bad they smooshed it all into one bill.

[bagimin]

6. I would suspect over

Netin-yahoo's carelessness with civilian casualties.

[COL Mustard]

11. That's a big problem.

I'm all in favor of destroying Hamas but come on...I know they embed w/civilians but you can't just shoot people.

[edisdead]

13. I mean.... WE DID. MORE THAN ONCE!

[Kennah]

26. Rules of war is often an oxymoron

[DFW]

86. To quote the fictional Nicolai Hel, "does the sixth of August mean anything to you?"

In the book in which a young American was asked that very question, it was answered in the negative, by the way.

[InstantGratification]

15. "Netin-yahoo'"

I like it. I would humbly suggest a minor change: Cretin-yahoo.

[Mister Ed]

7. Presumably a protest vote because the package included aid to Israel.

That would be consistent with Sanders' position on Israel aid.

The Republican senators who voted no were apparently opposed to aiding the beleaguered Ukrainians in their resistance to Putin.

[BonnieJW]

30. It isn't the aid to Israel he objects to

as much as aid without restrictions

[calimary]

8. Merkley's one of mine. Hmmmm...

I hope he explains it.

[Mme. Defarge]

19. Ditto

[soldierant]

81. He's not one of mine, but

I know enough about him to know he's not an idiot. He'll have an explanation.

[getagrip_already]

9. Sanders has 2 stated objections

First, Military aid to Israel.

Second, Financial aid being made available to the un agency for refugees and resttlent (not sure of their exact initials). They have been thoroughly infiltrated by hamas who have been siphoning off aid directly from the agency warehouses and bank accounts.

[OAITW r.2.0]

80. Each aid package should have been voted separately.

It doesn't help clarify the sense of the Senate when things are packaged like this. I'm OK with the big picture. Hope the Biden WH can micro-manages the Israeli military aid.

[electric_blue68]

4. Good! 🌻🇺🇦🌻

[tavernier]

10. A lot of cheering in Ukraine, Poland, Baltics etc.

[Warpy]

14. One hopes the Senate will just pass this thing

now that we know everything but the "loan" part was voted down in the House.

[orangecrush]

16. Fuck you, Russia

Fuck you.

[LexVegas]

17. Fuck Russia. Fuck Hamas. Fuck China. nt

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

28. Fawk em all

[honest.abe]

18. Can Rand Paul still stop it?

I think I read somewhere he said he might try to do it.

[InstantGratification]

36. Nope

The Senate invoked cloture, breaking the filibuster and allowing the bill to get a vote on the Senate floor. It will pass and Biden will sign it. It's a done deal at this point.

[honest.abe]

39. Great. That's what I was suspecting.

Thanks

[sab390]

20. When did Sanders vote no?

If it was after 60 yes then you can put in a no to show your concerns.

[lindysalsagal]

21. 80 is a good, solid number. Proves J Dementia T is losing control of the GQP.

[hueymahl]

22. That's too bad

That funding will result in many, many deaths.

[Gore1FL]

24. Or save many lives when compared to a world-war across the entirety of Europe. nt

[niyad]

29. To which part of the funding are you referring?

[hueymahl]

45. Mass graves found near Gaza Hospital

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/world/middleeast/gaza-mass-grave.html

[niyad]

62. Not all of us are mindreaders. It would have been helpful for you

to indicate to which part of the bill you were referring, and, possibly, why.

[tritsofme]

32. Wrong, it will save countless lives. Thank goodness the pro-Putin MAGA crowd was defeated.

[hueymahl]

40. I guess I am the last peacenik left in DU

That’s ok. I’ll keep the light burning until the war fever breaks.

[Elessar Zappa]

43. Ukraine is DEFENDING ITSELF.

Russia is waging war on them. Are you saying they should give in to a murderous dictator?

[bahboo]

46. thank you....jesus....

[MarineCombatEngineer]

48. That's exactly what that member is saying, in more than one thread.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

47. No, you're not a peacenik, you're in the mold of a Neville Chamberlain,

Peace for our time no matter the consequences.
You would rather see Ukraine fall to a bloodthirsty tyrant than send them the vital aid they desperately need to fend off these unprovoked atrocities against a sovereign nation by a tyrant nation.

[hueymahl]

54. You should consider being nicer

Hope you have more happiness than you show on here

[MarineCombatEngineer]

55. Ok Dr. Freud.

[Fla Dem]

50. You do realize that if we and other countries do not support Ukraine, Putin will wipe them out.

[hueymahl]

56. No, I do not realize that

There is a path to negotiated peace that limits casualties. I am in favor of that. We all should be instead of cheerleading war just because

[MarineCombatEngineer]

57. You've been asked this many, many times by myself and others, but here goes again,

not that I'm expecting an answer, Putin has shown no interest of negotiated agreement except on his terms and his terms only, which would mean the end of Ukraine and putting Europe in even greater danger, so, given that, what makes you think that negotiated peace is feasible?

[hueymahl]

58. There is a path to peace

The reason I don’t like to respond with specifics to these types of questions is that it is contrary to the narrative everyone likes to believe and often results in someone getting butt-hurt and alerting on these posts.

To any future jury, Putin is evil, and so are the republicans that support him. This is not a republican talking point I am giving, but is an attempt to convince my fellow DUers to come into the light and stop supporting war.

Ukraine would have to give up some territory. Most of this territory is populated primarily by Russian heritage persons. It sucks, but it is better than continued death and destruction.

Ukraine would have to agree not to join NATO

With these two concessions, I think this war could come to an end. And truly there is no realistic outcome other than this. We are just speeding up what will happen in a couple of more years anyway after hundreds of thousands of more casualties.

The other outcome is that we and the rest of Europe get dragged into direct confrontation, which is a horrible and dangerous outcome.

I reject out of hand the comparison to hitler and Neville chamberlain. That is the subject of another post, but if you believe that, you are intellectually lazy at best.

While not directly comparable, the situation is a lot more like Vietnam. Yes, it’s not a civil war, but it kind of is. Ukraine used to be part of the USSR, and a significant portion of the population, especially in the east, are sympathetic to Russian rule. This is an inconvenient truth few talk about.

Again, Putin is evil, he started it, and in a perfect world we could just force him back. But this is far from a perfect world and I choose peace over death given the options.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

59. You reject out of hand the Hitler/Chamberlain comparison?

I reject out of hand the comparison to Hitler and Neville chamberlain[/b

That's so laughable, here you are advocating for the same exact thing.
Chamberlain met with Hitler and struck a deal that if Hitler promised to not take more land, then the British would leave it as is, Chamberlain came home and declared "Peace for out time" and assured the British people that Hitler had been reined in.
How well did that work out for the world?

Putin has no intention of stopping with Ukraine, next it could, and probably would be a NATO member which would trigger Article 5 of the NATO Charter where it states that if one NATO country is attacked, then all of NATO would come to its defense, thereby engulfing the world in WWIII with all its horrors and suffering.
Now is the time for the world to step up and tell Putin that his aggression will not be tolerated before it gets to that point, and Ukraine is the place to stop him cold.

You are advocating for the same exact plan as Chamberlain had with Hitler.
I shudder to think what the world today would look like if you had been in charge during WWII.

[hueymahl]

67. Your understanding of history is lacking

NATO is a hard stop for Putin. Nothing similar existed back then. Not to mention the nuclear issue.

Plus, I believe that real peace can be obtained by forcing Ukraine to negotiate. But we will see. In two years I will repost this sadly as proof I was right.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

72. My understanding of history is lacking?

If nothing else, you are comical.

[hueymahl]

73. Thanks!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

61. Oh, and BTW,

that's not a path to peace, it's a path to appeasement.

[hueymahl]

68. No it is not

But you know that. I think.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

74. The sad thing here is your lack of understanding of appeasement and its history.

[niyad]

63. "Is it cold up there on the moral high ground?"

[hueymahl]

70. That's pretty funny

Well done. Best response yet!

[niyad]

77. Actually, I wasn't joking. But do, please, tell yourself whatever you

need to, in order to be able to carry the enormous, exhausting, weight of your superiority. However do you manage?

[niyad]

65. You will, of course, put your case before the survivors in Ukraine, yes?

We will, of course, want video.

[hueymahl]

71. Sure

Will you do the same I. Two years when the same settlement happens after another 100k + casualties ?

[niyad]

78. I have not put forward a plan, you have. And, again, PLEASE go

tell the survivors in Ukraine that you want them to bow before putin, that all their sacrifuces and losses were of absolutely no value. I need to order more popcorn

remdi95.

[Rhiannon12866]

87. Putin will not stop with Ukraine, he wants to recreate the USSR

I've been there and saw the misery - particularly in then-Soviet Georgia. And this was under Gorbachev who instituted progressive reforms. Putin is a murderous dictator, as you said, and Ukraine was only first on his list because he thought the fight would be brief. But the Ukrainians are unwilling to give up their democracy and will continue to fight.

[oldsoftie]

88. If Putin left UKR the war WOULD be stopped. Its that simple.

NOT providing assistance only means more Ukrainians die
If Hamas hadnt attacked Israel in OCT what's happening today wouldnt have happened. No, Israel doesnt get a free pass on ANYTHING GOES, but this is still on Hamas.

[Kaleva]

64. Yes, hopefully Russian deaths.

[littlemissmartypants]

84. There's more to promoting peace than simply protesting death.

Behold your complimentary breakfast. It comes with a free trip to outer space. Enjoy.

[Hekate]

23. KnR

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

27. Cool

[cstanleytech]

33. Translation is the Republicans caved as they found out the public was getting pissed off at them.

[honest.abe]

34. Anyone know if this means its pretty much a done deal?

Can it still be stalled?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

51. Nope,

with that kind of vote for cloture, it's a guaranteed win for Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel and all those receiving humanitarian aid elsewhere on the planet.

[honest.abe]

53. Great!

[elleng]

35. Fascinating!

I hope to hear from General Wesley Clark on the subject(s,) and get him involved in solution(s.)

[patphil]

38. I'd like to see a change in the Senate rules that limits the duration of a filibuster.

Perhaps 3 days, after which those involved with the filibuster would get one more hour to give a summation of why they opposed letting the bill go forward. After which, the real floor debate on the bill would be able to continue uninterrupted.

[LeftInTX]

41. Right now Rick Scott is giving a huge sermon on why he's against it. Boring........

I hate that when they go on and on.........

Now Lindsey Graham's sermon: "I'm gonna vote for it, but I regret there isn't border security" Of course, he's going on and on about border security

[mysteryowl]

42. Wow, this is a uniquic action.

I understand what they did. I also would like to see a law passed to restrain and monitor how Netanyahu uses the funding.

I can't stand what is happening in Gaza and it must stop!

[OnDoutside]

52. LIVE: US Senate to vote on $95 billion aid package to Ukraine, Israel

[CaptainTruth]

83. And Bernie voted against it?

[gopiscrap]

90. excellent